crusifix bayonet question

[p246]

I bought a crusifix bayonet for a No 4 mark 1. Were these just issued early on say 1941 to 1942 or would they have been issued later just in small numbers.

[jgaynor]

Cruciform. The other (cheaper) type was a plain spike. Off-hand i would think the spike would have succeeded the Cruciform pattern which was harder to make. Someone should know for sure.

Jim

[Art]

Cruciform bayonets are early issue and fairly rare. The simple spike bayonet, adopted because of cost issues, that succeeded it is by far the most common version.

[Parashooter]

Using a crucifix as a bayonet seems like a hellish idea!

[p246]

Okay let me rephrase I bought two crusiforms and have spikes. I was thinking the crisiforms would be more appropriate on a 41 and 42 No 4 and spikes on 1943 Enfield rifles and later. Or were they still making them into 1943.

[Alan De Enfield]

Using a crucifix as a bayonet seems like a hellish idea!

Handy for sorting out those rampaging hordes of the 'un-dead'

[JB White]

Okay let me rephrase I bought two crusiforms and have spikes. I was thinking the crisiforms would be more appropriate on a 41 and 42 No 4 and spikes on 1943 Enfield rifles and later. Or were they still making them into 1943.

Doesn't quite work that way. The No4 'cruciform' bayonet was approved in 1939. When war broke out in '39 it was realised the machining of the flutes was an unneeded production step. In early '41 is when the paperwork caught up with the approved changes. By very early 1942 the No4MkIII bayonet was also approved for production. So, during that time we saw the No4MkI, No4MkII, No4MkII*, and the No4MkIII BAYONETS. The bayonet sequence has nothing to do with the sequence of rifle marks.

As far as what's "correct"....they all are. Whatever bayonet was available for issue was issued at the time it was needed. One Tommy may have been handed a MkIII while the next guy in line could have been given a MkI when issued gear.

[p246]

Here's a photo of the one I'm keeping. Thanks JB I was under the impression the switch happened rather abruptly, but in war time that's probably impossible.

[Art]

Something that keeps coming up is which accoutrements are "correct" for a given rifle. As J.B. White says, whatever accessory was available for the rifle at the time might be found on it. Ordnance and supply people had much more to be concerned with than matching accessories to rifles by date, especially the Brits who never threw anything away until it absolutely couldn't be used anymore.

I've seen pictures of full length M1905 Bayonets on M1 rifles in the Korean War after the M5 Bayonet was adopted, and long after the M1 Bayonet entered service, both of which were intended to replace it. They were available and therefore were used.

[John Sukey]

The spike bayonet, cruciform or plain, was a seperate item of issue. Therefore you could get either one. The only exception I can remember as when those unissued so called (Irish) No4's came on the market and the bayonets came with them.