US&S EXP No 8

[Shooter5]

Mr Holbrook; FYSA, I met Mr 'Swede' Boreen last year at a MOAA conference last year and he is a Pearl Harbor survivor from the USS Oklahoma.

http://www.stripes.com/news/veterans...ience-1.256606

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/12/0...or_experience/

John R: a Mosquito recently flew again!

http://www.worldwarbirdnews.com/2012...and/#more-1617

[John HOLBROOK]

Not many folks know "The rest of the story" of the USS OKLAHOMA after she was up righted and raised from the mud of Pearl Harbor. It was determined not to refit her and nor return her to service, so she was sold for scrap and while she was being towed to CONUS, she broke tow, rolled over and sank a few hundred miles west of the Islands.

Perhaps a better and more fitting end for a proud and noble warship......

[cplnorton]

With you having #8, I'm just curious how this one compares to yours. I didn't read all the back and forth, but did notice the comments about the rear tang. Mine is the same way. But here are some pics. I'm just curious how mine stacks up to your number 8.

This has been in my friends collection from about 2001. He was richer than God and paid a small fortune for it back then and he owned over a 1000 1911's. But that doesn't make it real. He passed and I got it from the estate. I know I showed it on the 1911 forum several years ago and Scott said it was a fake. And since then when I shown it several times and it's always 50/50 real vs fake.

I know Julius Kosan really well, and he looked at it and tended to believe it was real. And I keep on trying to catch Chuck Clawson to look at it, but everytime I see him, I don't have it with me.

But the problem with these and you barely ever see two that are identical. It seems everyone you look at it, is different from the rest. So how do you know if it's real when there is so much variation in them all?

[Johnny P]

That looks like an aftermarket receiver.

[Scott Gahimer]

Agreed. Receiver is not US&S... not even USGI.

[Duane Hansen]

You can see the indentation where the old serial number and United States Property markings were ground off. The new numbers and lettering are even more crude than the other EXP pistols that I've seen and that were shown in the previous pictures.

[Scott Gahimer]

It's an Argentinean receiver.

Here are photos of another fake where they used an Argentinean receiver, and the moron who made it wasn't even bright enough to remove the internal serial number. BATF liked this one and last I heard, they were going after the guy.

[cplnorton]

I honestly do think it's a USGI frame. The only reason I say this is because I can see in the right light what looks like a very faint M1911A1 US ARMY on the right side of the frame. It's been removed as well. And in that area the receiver is divited as with metal removed. It's a ghost image sort of like how you sand off a cartouche in wood, and can still see it somewhat in the right light.

But there is no way I could ever get a pic of it. I have to have it in very bright sunlight and twist and turn it to make out where it was. I don't know if there were any commercial guns made that had markings similar to that in that spot or not. And maybe that would explain it. But it does appear to have had at one time the M1911A1 US ARMY markings that you see on WWII guns. Which just adds more to the mystery of it.

I have really always felt these Experimental were more a leap of faith than anything. It would be very easy to fake one if you wanted to.

As for this one. I have very found memories of my friend who was the previous owner. He is the one who got me started on 1911's and this one I have very fond memories with. That is the reason I have it mostly, just out of remembrance of out talks and the friendship we had. He was one heck of a guy and is dearly missed everyday. He was an old Korean War vet and a drinker and womanizer till the day he died. He was in his mid 70's, dating 20 year old girls and had a medicine cabinet full of viagra. He was a blast to be around and sort of a second father to me. He was a good guy.

[Scott Gahimer]

All you have to do is look at the recoil spring housing (how big it is) and all the extra metal that shows along the side of the stocks to know it is not a USGI receiver. There is a slight possibility it could be an aftermarket cast receiver. But, if forged, the only receivers that have the front straps and recoil spring housings not fully rounded are the Argentinean pistols. With all due respect, it's just wishful thinking to say or wish it is USGI. None of the USGI receivers have the traits of the Argie. Additionally, the grip tang is correctly shaped for the Argie, too.

[cplnorton]

Gotcha, I see what you are saying. I might have to borrow a friends Argentina and try to look at them side by side and get measurements. Both sides of the frame have been ground down a lot. Almost like they put it on a huge belt sander or something and removed the metal. The frame has had a lot of metal removed. I can tell as the mag release protrudes out on each side much further than it should. The receiver is not cast and does appear to be forged, so you very well might be right. I am not ever going to make claims of originality on this one, or really any Experimental to be honest. I just don't know enough. I do believe I see the Army markings but maybe I'm mistaken. It wouldn't be the first time.