US&S EXP No 8

[ignats]

Did anyone else besides Colt (and after WWII - DGFM - Sistema) make milled triggers? I can't think of any other manufacturers during that era that did make them. Oops, left out Singer.

[Scott Gahimer]

Yes, Remington Rand had milled triggers up to about the 927xxx serial range. However, US&S never used a milled trigger.

[Johnny P]

FYIW, EXP #1 is up in the May RIA Auction: http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/52/lid/3751

An interesting comparison pistol. It has the type of hammer and trigger that you would expect to find on a US&S, as well as the contour of the machining you would find on a US&S receiver.

[anton67]

Oh boy, here we go again . . . . . .maybe.

[Scott Gahimer]

EXP 1 also has a proper US&S M1911A1 thumb safety, the proper late Keyes Fibre style stocks. For those who don't know it, the EXP were late production pistols, many of which were made with rejected receivers. US&S had depleted no ring stocks before these pistols were made.

Gordon's pistol has a M1911 thumb safety! Notice the thin thumb piece and ridge around it.


Original US&S thumb safeties are entirely different. Here's one example...plenty more photos available. Notice the coverage difference on the hammer pins.


Back to the issue of the hammer in Gordon's gun. That hammer didn't even exist when the EXP pistols were made. Here are a few of the same hammers...all in 1944 Colts. BTW, Johnny, is the arrow pointing to the "contour in the machining" you mention? If so, I have photos of about 20 original US&S pistols. They all have like contours in their machining. See images.

The 1944 Colt hammers...same as in Gordon's gun.





Here is Gordon's contour in the grip tang


Here is what original US&S production grip tangs look like.



You can compare these grip tangs to the one on EXP 1 at the RIAC site http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/52/lid/3751 You'll see they are the same.

And just think, we were able to see all these issues with just the iffy pictures Gordon posted. I wonder what hie and his experts were looking at?

[anton67]

We are not up to post 50 yet

[Scott Gahimer]

We are not up to post 50 yet

No need to stretch it out any longer. Gordon is a grown up. He can handle it.

So what is the receiver on EXP 8? Well, looking at a lot of original pistols, makes that a little easier to determine. Every manufacturer's grip tangs were slightly different, and varied slightly in different serial ranges. Sadly, US&S NEVER produced a receiver with the grip tang that is shown on Gordon's gun. Colt's were sorta similar. But, the only M1911A1 manufacturer who produced receivers with the exact same grip tang and pin placement as what is on EXP 8 (that I've been able to find...looking at a lot of pistols) was Remington Rand, in the 1.3M to 1.5M serial range. Here are a few examples:





Unless anyone believes US&S used Remington Rand receivers that were not manufactured until 1944 in their EXP pistols, it appears EXP 8 has been scrubbed of Remington Rand markings...probably including the serial number...and that creates an issue about the legality of even possessing it. Hmmm? I wonder what that means about all that provenance back to 1975?

[Johnny P]

US&S Navy issue with the typical US&S contour.

[anton67]

I personally would not have noticed any of these issues.
Then again, I would not have spent a small fortune on any gun without doing my research or consulting someone who knew his stuff.
All I can say is . . . . Doh boy.

And BTW, a gun with altered serial numbers would likely be illegal to own in my state.

[ignats]

I personally would not have noticed any of these issues.
Then again, I would not have spent a small fortune on any gun without doing my research or consulting someone who knew his stuff.
All I can say is . . . . Doh boy.

And BTW, a gun with altered serial numbers would likely be illegal to own in my state.

Which is why it's a good idea to read the posts here, observe and record serial number ranges etc etc.

It's a federal crime to possess a firearm that has an altered or removed firearm. From National Firearms Act of 1934

Criminal conduct

The Act makes certain conduct a criminal offense, in relation to engaging in business as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer with respect to (NFA) firearms without having registered or paid a Special Occupational Tax (SOT); receiving or possessing a firearm transferred to oneself in violation of the NFA; receiving or possessing a firearm made in violation of the NFA; receiving or possessing a firearm not registered to oneself in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record; transferring or making a firearm in violation of the NFA; or obliterating, removing, changing, or altering the serial number of the firearm.

Criminal penalties

Violations of the Act are punishable by up to 10 years in federal prison and forfeiture of all devices or firearms in violation, and the individual's right to own or possess firearms in the future. The Act provides for a penalty of $10,000 for certain violations. A willful attempt to evade or defeat a tax imposed by the Act is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a $100,000 fine ($500,000 in the case of a corporation or trust), under the general tax evasion statute. For an individual, the felony fine of $100,000 for tax evasion could be increased to $250,000.