US&S EXP No 8

[gbethu]

This is a US&S recently acquired. Great finish.

[Bob K]

Very nice Gordon.

[Scott Gahimer]

I think you should have looked at some original US&S pistols, then specifically researched the EXP...and then consulted with an expert. Did it come with a return policy?

[gbethu]

Yes Scott, I did. It's straight. I know you're pissed that I was able to buy Chuck Clawson's cover photo Colt serial 39 and his Singer, but don't try to publicly pee over other guns I acquire just to "pay me back". There are plenty of knowledgeable and trusted dealers and I used them to vet this pistol. Hope your knee is getting better every day.
gordon

[Scott Gahimer]

Gordon:

No. 39 and S800418 have nothing to do with this gun and I am not pissed at you. You post pistols on a public forum where I post and I posted what I did, not for "pay back", but so others will learn and know what I think. If you think it's straight, by all means, keep it and enjoy it. I didn't expect you to agree with me or to be interested in what I see or think. Did the same knowledgeable and trusted dealers that steered you to 10, 501, 502, 503, 110000 and some others you've posted steer you to this pistol?

In a discussion we had after the Morphy auction, you told me you had dinner with Mr. Morphy. You told me after I inspected Super .38 #3 and told the auction it was refinished and the markings were engraved...including the serial number...that Morphy then contacted an expert who told him the gun was okay. I am sure there are many sellers and experts who are happy to tell people what they want to hear.

You also told me you thought it made a difference knowing who was bidding on guns at auction...that if a knowledgeable collector was a bidder, that was a good sign. Well, I inspected about 30 items at the Morphy auction and only bid on the 2 I purchased. But I registered with them to call me on about a dozen items to bid, including the guns you bought, just to see what they went for and to keep the auction house from knowing what I wanted to buy. Any auction that would share information about who is registered to bid or inquiring about any auction, IMO, isn't anyone I'd consider a good source of information. They only do that kind of stuff to reel in guys with deep pockets and inflate sales prices.

I told you as a subscriber to my site, all you had to do was spend $35...just like all my other folks who order Online Opinions from me, and you could have saved yourself a bunch of time, trouble and embarrassment on NAA 5. You told me you thought I'd do a lot better not charging you. Apparently, you don't pay for the opinions you get, and so far, I'd say you've gotten your money's worth.

Remember NAA 5? You were sure that was original, too. Use who you want for an opinion and believe what you want. But don't be surprised if everyone doesn't agree. I will not bother to offer information on all the issues I see with this EXP 8. However, I am relatively confident at least some folks who view these boards see some of the same things I do.

[Johnny P]

Unless it is just the fuzzy photograph, the trigger sure looks like it is milled rather than stamped. US&S never used a milled trigger.

[gbethu]

Scott, sorry if our past has clouded your opinion of any gun I share with this forum. I don't sell pistols or advice so I have no dog in the fight with you. I know you want to be the 1911 Moses coming down from the Mountain and perhaps you should be...perhaps. You make your living selling yourself as an "expert". I just buy guns and share the photos with other collectors. When I make an error, like NAA #5, I thanked the forum for helping me and I was happy to have my money returned. You were, as you told me, the underbidder of the Singer I bought at Morphy's. I suspect you were after Colt #10 as well. Sorry.....That's the way auctions work. The opinion of the Colt .38 Super you mentioned was never of interest to me. The people at Morphy's thought you were wrong. I just told you that for your information only. You decided to share that with the many people here.

You asked me to pay you $20,000 to not interfere/block my purchase of Clawson's Singer. Clawson sold it to me in spite of what you said was a previous long term relationship (20+ years) with Chuck. Maybe that's why he decided to sell it to me. I know you're upset with that because you blocked my subscription on your site that I obtained from you when I purchased a $20,000 Navy 1911 you sold to me. Sad commentary.......

US&S No. 8 is a great, authenticated pistol. You really can't make a valid judgement call from the two photos I posted. Even you aren't Superman able to see through posted photos of guns. Hard to substitute your snap judgement from the 4 people who have owned the gun since 1975. they are all morons I'm sure. What was this gun worth in 1975 ? If you're going to fake something almost 40 years ago, why not pick something that was worth a lot at the time. It's only very recently this gun has traded over 10K. It is almost identical to the 5 others I inspected.

I think you need to take a moment to evaluate the harm a public tiff over a gun you've never seen can cause damage to your reputation. My reputation is intact and outside of buying pistols....you need the opinion of this arena much worse than I do..

I would like to be able to post photos of 1911s and share them with those that are interested. If someone has a question , then ask in a polite way. No one is going to share if a 'grand master" will denounce it as fake (or allege it as fake) because you didn't run it by them or buy their opinion. Make any observations you want. make them factual and discernible . Make the politely......it's what professionals do.

[Scott Gahimer]

Gordon:

I'll be brief. I did NOT bid on No. 10 because it had too many problems. I did not bid on the Singer because it sold for too much for a pistol in that condition with an incorrect magazine. If you suspect I bid on either of those pistols, that may make you feel better, but it is not the truth. I never bid on anything until the bidding is ready to close. I don't run prices up; I bid at the end. Once the pistol went north or $50K, I was not interested.

And to clarify. I suggested you pay me the same finder fee you pay others in exchange for me to decline buying the Singer. I still have the written sales contract signed by myself and CWC, acknowledging the price they (he and spouse) set, their acceptance of my $10K cash down payment and allowance of 60 days to pay the balance. When I took the full balance due to pick up the pistol, about 30 days later, Mr. Clawson did not honor the contract and raised the price by $65K. His wife showed him their signed copy of the agreement and tried to persuade him to honor it. We were told you'd been calling and e-mailing him 2-3 times a week, even after you were told he had already agreed to sell it to me.

So much for brevity.

Here is a photo of part of the purchase agreement.


When I called and told you about the purchase agreement, you told me I was his friend and that I wouldn't sue him. I agreed. You said others knew he and you had previously talked about you buying the Singer. I asked you if you thought some verbal or telephone agreement was better than my signed contract where money had exchanged hands. Then, you said Chuck Clawson ought to know that you were no one he wanted to mess with. You said when he told you he was selling me the pistol, you told told him he had a mess on his hands and he better clean that up. So I assumed raising the price by $65K was his way to do that. The pistol was worth what I agreed to pay for it, but no more. Originality and condition are what drive prices to knowledgeable collectors. Guns in the books are nice. I have nearly 40 of the guns shown in his books. But there are limits on everything, even on items are are 100% original.

Anyone who would threaten action against CWC for not selling a gun to him is no friend of mine. I opted to let the gun go, rather than expose my friend to any problems.

FYI, the reason you were deleted from my site as a subscriber is because you told me you'd phone me by noon the next day, and you didn't. You never followed-up. Instead, you rushed in to make the purchase and then post pictures of 39 and S800418. Was that gloating? I simply don't give free subscriptions to people who say one thing and do another.

Now, only because you know so much about US&S EXP pistols...let's see how long it is before others figure out what you just bought. BTW, the photos you provide are plenty good to see everything you need to know to draw conclusions about what this pistol is...or isn't.

I've already done the hard part, pointing out there are multiple issues with the pistol. You do not value my opinions, so let's let others look it over and offer their opinions.

[Scott Gahimer]

When I make an error, like NAA #5, I thanked the forum for helping me and I was happy to have my money returned.

Yes, this is how you thanked the gentleman who first broke the news to you that you had a problem on NAA 5. I'm starting to see a pattern here. BTW, you didn't only owe all those posted info a thank you, but you owed the one gentleman an apology.

Only after 5 pages of posts with multiple people devoting all kinds of time and posting all kinds of images did you finally acknowledge what many others knew from the moment you posted the images. Think about it, Gordon. I don't have any motive for posting any bad info for a pistol on the forum. I do depend on a reputation for knowing what I'm talking about and being able to back it up. Do you think I am the only one who has noticed what's wrong? I've received e-mails and phone calls, the same way I do when others post high profile pieces with problems.

From the NAA #5 thread, Gordon's way of saying thanks.

[Johnny P]

An original US&S stamped trigger in the bright blue finish.