Type 38 stock finish

[Ls6man]

Hi guys

I have a Type 38 which is all matching and fully mummed...the downside is the stock has been refinished from what I've been told. Should there be any external markings on the stock (Carthouches?)? Also if a stock has been refinished is there a way to bring it back to close to factory appearance? The rifle overall is in 90% shape...so probably worth messing with.

Could another Type 38 stock which hasn't been refinished be used?

Thanks in advance

Greg

[Dad]

If it is a truly all matching rifle, the stock and hand guard will have the assembly number of the rifle stamped in the barrel channel. There are also some very small kanji stamps, usually under the wrist and near the trigger guard.
Here is a great site;
http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html
And a data sheet;
http://www.castle-thunder.com/datasheets/38ds.pdf

How about some pictures.

D.

[dave]

I have done some experiments with oil stains and have them marked down, in my shop. It depends some on the particular piece of wood, but it will be close. A semi-gloss poly is what I used I believe, will check that also and get back here later.

[dave]

Did not use a poly, used a spray can of clear laquer as the original is a jap laquer of some sort, very toxic to the skin by the way. Min-Wax oil stain. Red Oak gives a very deep reddish color. Roswood gives a lighter shade and Red Mahagony still lighter. Each one was two coats of stain, letting them soak (but not dry) before wipeing.
Generaly when stocks were refinished the person does not do the barrel channel so that is a good place to do a match. Japanese wood seems to very allot in the way it takes color. I used one old cut up stock for my samples.

[JimF]

. . . . as the original is a jap laquer of some sort, very toxic to the skin by the way. . . .

I once read that the finish of the stocks had a sumack resin base . . . . .

So much so that, when the occupyng troops were in Japan, those that went to the various bars in the country, had an allergic skin reaction when leaning their forearms on the bar!

Apparently the finish on the bar was about the same as placed on the gun stocks!

Maybe just a tale . . . maybe not! --Jim

[Nate]

Just a thought, when I first saw my rifle the finish was so crappy I considered refinishing it. Before I could it was pointed out to me that the shiny varnish looking finish was correct.

[Dad]

The original finish, of your Type 38, was urushi, a type of Japanese lacquer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicodendron_vernicifluum
It can cause a rash when uncured since it contains the same oil as poison ivy.

If it is an all matching rifle and you replace the stock you will decrease it's collector value.

D.

[Guamsst]

Inspector stamps may or may not be present. The "correct" finish is almost impossible to determine. Stock colors varied from bright red to bright yellow. Most were a reddish brown.

There is allot of misinformation on the finish as far as color and gloss. I have seen original perfect stocks that people scoffed at as being "refinished with an ugly red gloss that was obviously wrong"

[Guamsst]

Type 30 on top, then two Type 38s and two Type 38 trainers, Type I, Siamese Mauser and finally a Type99 Long. No two are exactly the same finish and all are original. Most 38s and 38 trainers are almost black. This is usually due to age.






Three Type 99s and a childrens training rifle. Original finishes except the childrens training rifle has been waxed recently to clean it and bring out the color a bit. The second rifle is pretty reddish but it doesn't show too well in the photo.





Original RED Type38 glossy finish on the left and some Type99s of various colors. Note the type 99 on the far right has gouges in the finish showing the wood is almost white but the finish is very red. Also has Kanji painted on the side of the buttstock so I know it was not refinished.

[Ls6man]

I will try to get a few pics posted later today and hopefuly will destock the rifle as well to check for matching numbers. Thanks guys for all the info. ! Merry Christmas!