Worst day ever at the range

[M1Riflenut]

Alright 405 grainers with 45 grains pyrodex running average of 1350 . I also tried 55 grains pyrodex with them and average was 1420. My guess is like the others your bullet is to small. And to hard to expand against rifling at ignition. If you can't find any let me know I'll send you 10 of my 405 grainers to try.

Thank you for the info and offer. I think the local shop had the 405 gr hollow base but was out of stock. They don't sell much of this stuff so they probably don't re-order often. I know there was a spot on the rack that said 45-70 405 gr hollow base, but it was empty and I don't know what size those would be.
Your charge is much lower than what I used. Am I overcharging with 65 gr BP or are you talking about actual weight of the RS pyro? I don't know what the weight of the pyro was I used as I just put one of the weighed BP charges into my adjustable measure, set it to be level and then used that for the pyro RS. I've always known RS to be the equivalent by volume, not weight. Both loads seemed about the same for recoil. Don't have a chrono so no idea whats going on there.

[p246]

Pyrodex RS should be decreased by 10 to 15% if by weight. Max load for Pyrodex RS would be around 60 grains if using the 15% formula. My old time mentor was the one that told me to drill out the flashole with 41 bit and use magnum primers to get better ignition with BP. Make sure to never load cases with smokeless after that. When I played with both I got 100 fps faster with his flash hole and mag primer over stock hole and standard primer. I wanted to time a load to be on with sight at 100 yards hence the lower loading. With your loads if shooting right will be 8 to 10 inches high but would be real close to being on at 200.

[mannparks]

M1,here is a store bought bullet source.
http://www.buffaloarms.com
As you well know the variables are many.
Go slow ,be safe read a lot it will come.
Charles

[sdkrag]

22 years ago I started this same odyssey when my new father-in-law brought me his new trapdoor that was doing the same thing M1Riglenut's rifle is doing. Since then we have successfully fired literally thousands of rounds through numerous rifles with great success. We ended up forming a shooting/re-enacting club and our members cornered the market on trapdoors in the Dakota's for a few years. The question was how did the govt. inexpensively and efficiently make these rifles shoot accurately? They didn't spend money on wads or patches.

p246 is using much of what we discovered though ours and others research. Components were different in the 1880s. We found drilling out primer holes and using magnum primers was helpful (Spencer Wolf's book should be credited). In addition soft hollow based bullets with the ability to expand to fit the bore were essential. SPG is an excellent lube. I have also used bees wax/olive oil combo as lube. My father-in-law actually visited Spencer Wolf at his home/shop and learned a lot of what he put in his book in person. Spence designed the Lee 405 hollow base bullet that closely duplicates the original govt. bullet. The 500 grain bullet (Rapine made a good mold) also originally had a slight hollow base. (I have originals). We use FFG powder or Pyrodex. I use 55 - 60 grains just because after 100-150 rounds in an hour it doesn't beat you up as bad.

I won't state that smokeless powder and jacketed bullets will not work. But I believe you need a very good example trapdoor to be successful with those components without a lot of work. Marginal bores and oversize bores can be made to shoot relatively accurately using hollow based soft bullets. My goal was to replicate the govt. issued ammo when I started. Why re-invent the wheel? For 10 years we had an average of 20 riflemen at our range every month successfully firing rifles using these loads (1000-2000 rounds). Most of the guys are shooting cowboy action these days. I still shoot the trapdoor or my 50-70 rolling block at re-enacting events. Have not had a tumbler in 20 years.

[M1Riflenut]

Thanks guys for the tips and encouragement. I'll pick up different bullets and try again, heck I might even get into casting myself. Once I get this thing working, I have a few 1863 muskets I'd like to try as well, although only one of those has bore that's "half decent". I've thought about having one of them relined to use as a shooter, but that's a whole different topic for another day.

[M1Riflenut]

M1,here is a store bought bullet source.
http://www.buffaloarms.com
As you well know the variables are many.
Go slow ,be safe read a lot it will come.
Charles

Awesome website Charles, thank you. I just placed an order for bullets and a few other items. I could spend a boatload on that site! They had a .460" 405 gr hollow base listed so I ordered a box of those to try. I went back to my LGS today and got a box of .459" 405gr flatbase, they do not have a hollowbase listed as I thought.
I'll give it another go in a few days!

[Mark Daiute]

Go to castboolits.com and start hanging out there. You'll learn a lot and there's a bullet exchange there.

[M1Riflenut]

Go to castboolits.com and start hanging out there. You'll learn a lot and there's a bullet exchange there.

Thanks Mark. Got new bullets to try but too busy this weekend to get back out. Maybe next weekend. Got a new granddaugther this weekend instead!