Struggling with off-hand hold position

[pmclaine]

Without going down to get the rifle I cant really explain my hold. Its something I do, not something I talk about. Kind of like being unable to remember a Masterlock combination unless you have the lock in your hand.

My trigger hand (right) holds the C-stock as per usual. The left hand has the trigger guard in my palm as well it cups my trigger hand. Its just a really "in tight" position with as much of my arms as possible tight to my torso to gain whatever support can be had. My right arm does not chicken wing out to the side, its in as tight to my body as muscle, fat and man boobs will allow.

I usually have my glove on but its less important in off hand as compared to those positions where I have the sling in place and Im looking for protection from getting my hand pinched by the sling. My glove is not heavily padded. I bought it at Creedmore I think they call it the NRA fingerless glove.

[Roadkingtrax]

Without going down to get the rifle I cant really explain my hold. Its something I do, not something I talk about. Kind of like being unable to remember a Masterlock combination unless you have the lock in your hand.

My trigger hand (right) holds the C-stock as per usual. The left hand has the trigger guard in my palm as well it cups my trigger hand. Its just a really "in tight" position with as much of my arms as possible tight to my torso to gain whatever support can be had. My right arm does not chicken wing out to the side, its in as tight to my body as muscle, fat and man boobs will allow.

I usually have my glove on but its less important in off hand as compared to those positions where I have the sling in place and Im looking for protection from getting my hand pinched by the sling. My glove is not heavily padded. I bought it at Creedmore I think they call it the NRA fingerless glove.

I can visualize what you're talking about...

Easier to do, then to describe.

[pmclaine]

I can visualize what you're talking about...

Easier to do, then to describe.

If you were visualizing I apologize for the man boobs descriptor. Go wash your eyes and try to get the image out.

[Roadkingtrax]

If you were visualizing I apologize for the man boobs descriptor. Go wash your eyes and try to get the image out.

I stand in judgement of no man's physical advantages.

[pmclaine]

I stand in judgement of no man's physical advantages.

....a Phil Mickelson fan?

[Roadkingtrax]

....a Phil Mickelson fan?

I had to do a google search, and now I see the joke. Know OF him, but don't watch enough golf...or check them out.


I've never been a little guy, except for the 10 years I had to stay in good shape for the military. I knew I was getting old when I was grunting to jump on an F-16 wing tank to get on top to de-panel it. Supposed to use a ladder though.

[Johnny in Texas]

Finding your natural point of aim is very helpful. move your feet until your rifle points at the target left - right then the only work you have to do is hold elevation find the most comfortable hold to get a natural small wobble area. Do this every time you address the target. It takes a few minutes to do this.

[Griff Murphey]

Lots of good advice has been given here only one point I can think of to add and that is that in shooting a major part of it is mental discipline. I quit shooting from the late 80's to about 2000 and I lost a lot of my mental conditioning as far as I could not get back into my zone where I fired almost mechanically and started getting wobbly knees like a beginner. Dry firing or as the marines say, snapping-in helps but there is no substitute for firing matches. If you can't find matches try to simulate them by firing with others, amaze the benchresters who can't even think of shooting from anything other than a dead rest.

The other thing is that my back has gotten to the point that I can't take a hardback coat anymore.

One last point, even if you make a bad shot, never give up. If you have to bring the gun down bad try again; you have a minute a shot. I was shooting in the Texas State HP matches in 1972, sighters 10s, first shot for record a 6! I went the next 19 all in the 10 and x ring, shot a 196 which back then was a great score and set a record in Texas. Cain't do it like that no more.

First shot for record, 1975 3rd Mar Div intramural R&P matches was a 5v center bull on the next door neighbor target! I won that one, too. NEVER GIVE UP!

[Greg Ficklin]

So much of what makes someone a successful offhand shooter is confidence, and subconsciously following of a shot process that took years to perfect for that individual. That is why it is so hard to tell someone how to be better. It is so internalized and personal. The very best advice I can give you is to hold the rifle.... a lot. Work out a shot process by copying the movements of an accomplished offhand shooter from the time he picks the rifle up from the stool, loads, fires, and returns it to the stool. Every movement has a purpose that builds consistency to the point that the shooter no longer thinks about any of them. The key is to find comfort, with comfort you will build steadiness. Trying this or that change should first and foremost be a quest for comfort and not a noticeable improvement in steadiness of hold. A good offhand hold is nothing more than the ability to stand still with the weight of the rifle. Believe me this is much easier said than done, but you will get there with a lot of holding without the added complication of working the trigger. Getting the gun to fire is a whole new process that involves the mind that can separate the the two concepts of sight alignment and trigger control into conscious and subconscious actions. When conscious effort is dedicated to sight alignment and not "when to fire", the shooter merely becomes an observer of sight location on the target when the rifle eventually fires. The subconscious mind is tasked with trigger control with very slow increases in pressure to the trigger based on acceptable sight alignment. Pressure only resumes when the sight alignment is acceptable. For the new shooter this is anywhere near his ideal sight picture. This is a critical skill that has to be learned in order to accurately call your shots. Dry firing if not done with this concept will result in a conscious decision to fire "now" pushing the shot out the door and disturbing the sight alignment. The shooter would never do this in the most stable position of prone, or even from a bench, but they think they can get away with it in the most unstable position of standing. The shooter is certain that it was in the 10 ring but it isn't. It is a 7 or worse. They don't understand what happened. All of the dry firing in the basement with good shot after good shot doesn't repeat itself on match day. When the concept of interrupted trigger control is burned into the subconscious mind with detailed and precise movements of a thoroughly comfortable and repeatable shot process you are well on your way to loving the standing slow fire stage. You will be able to confidently observe and call 10's around the clock and when it is an 8. I'd like to say that I never shoot 8's anymore, but I do. But I know them when they go, and what I did wrong. The ever increasing standard never stops. New shooters like 9's, but I hate them, and 8's are rare but they still get in there.

[jpretle]

Adapt the 'by the book', position to your body configuration. Everyone is different. Practice, practice, practice makes for muscle memory which lets you acquire your NPA quickly, so you can get the shot off w/o getting fatigued. You most likely will not acquire a perfectly still position, but you may get to the point where you cannot see the motion. Once there, you may experience wonderment, in terms of 'why won't the shot go off', or why didn't I shoot?
The off hand position doesn't get better than that, if you are on target when it happens. Muscle memory is what gets you to that point, so again, it is practice, practice, practice.
Now, get 'em centered.