How many Krags saw service in the Spanish American War?

[jon_norstog]

I'm not holding my breath.

I wonder if the Army had any idea exactly how many troops they had in Cuba, and where they were, let alone how to provision them.

[Kragrifle]

Ohio

[dave]

I own carbine 77733, went to the Phillipines with the 1st. Cav.

[Rick the Librarian]

I realize the legal backing changed in the 1900-1916-era. There was the Dick Act of 1903, as well.

As far "units" it depends how you define them. If you go by divisional units, the usual "book" is all divisions between the 26th (New England) and the 42nd (Rainbow Division, made up of many state units) were of National Guard origin. I am not aware of any other divisional units of National Guard that didn't make it overseas. You may have information. Also, there may have been smaller units called up, as well.

[Maury Krupp]

It depends on how you define "units" and also how you define "National Guard" or "militia."

I believe Mr Farmers is hinting at the semi-legal fiction that occured when the state units were "inducted" into federal service. The most obvious result being all the units lost their state identities (eg, the 69th New York Volunteer Infantry became the 165th [United States] Infantry).

Presto! What had been a state militia (ie, National Guard) unit, under the control of the state governor and constitutionally prohibited from serving overseas, was now a federal unit capable of being sent anywhere for anything at the whim of the federal government.

Lineage and PR aside there's a pretty compelling argument that today's National Guard is not the militia referred to in the Constitution. It's a pure federal reserve military force. That's why the tag over the left pocket says "U.S. Army" or "U.S. Air Force" not "[state name] National Guard" or anything else associated with the state.

Maury

[Fred]

The 26th U.S. Volunteer Infantry was issued 1898 Krag rifles in July of 1899 before being shipped out to the Philipine's. Somewhere around here I still have a photocopy of the original handwritten list by rifle serial number and also rifle shipping crate that was made by a Captain of that unit. It was sent to me by Frank Mallory upon submitting the serial number of a Krag rifle that I used to have that'd been one of those issued to that unit. Frank also sent me a photocopy of the 26th's Unit Log that was updated every week while that unit was in the Philipine's. Those rifles used by the 26th U.S. Volunteer Infantry have shown up as I've seen several being sold that went unnoticed on Gun broker or other sites over the years.

[Dick Hosmer]

As a counterpoint, at least one troop of the 6th US Cav, took around 70 Model 1896 carbines (refurbed at St. Louis in the summer of 1900) to Peking.

[Rick the Librarian]

The 26th U.S. Volunteer Infantry was issued 1898 Krag rifles in July of 1899 before being shipped out to the Philipine's. Somewhere around here I still have a photocopy of the original handwritten list by rifle serial number and also rifle shipping crate that was made by a Captain of that unit. It was sent to me by Frank Mallory upon submitting the serial number of a Krag rifle that I used to have that'd been one of those issued to that unit. Frank also sent me a photocopy of the 26th's Unit Log that was updated every week while that unit was in the Philipine's. Those rifles used by the 26th U.S. Volunteer Infantry have shown up as I've seen several being sold that went unnoticed on Gun broker or other sites over the years.

I realize several Volunteer units received Krags on the way to the Philippines or while there. The thing that interested me about 5MF's list was that several state units received Krags well before the Spanish-American War.

[5MadFarmers]

The 1916 National Defense Act changed the relationship of the Army and the newly designated National Guard.

In 1917, using the powers from that act, the National Guard was activated, called to federal service, discharged, and drafted in one fell swoop. The new federally assigned division designations were used but, outside of regulars, all other troops were draftees. Played holy heck after the war as the National Guard commitment was gone - they'd been discharged.

No National Guard troops served overseas - there weren't any. They'd been discharged and drafted.

[5MadFarmers]

I realize several Volunteer units received Krags on the way to the Philippines or while there. The thing that interested me about 5MF's list was that several state units received Krags well before the Spanish-American War.

Where did you get that? The units I listed received the guns in November of 1898. I included the date. They surveyed the Militia arms in 1898. Black troops in Georgia still had muskets. The cavalry in one of the north western states was still entirely armed with Spencers. Which means they'd been better armed than the regular army for 30 years.

The Ordnance Department charged the States new prices for rebuilt arms. Using federal money. The amount was fixed and, due to the prices, it was never enough. Some States chipped in and bought newer guns. Illinois bought .50/70s off the surplus market as they were cheaper. The Ordnance Department was at war with the Army. The Army was at war with the militia. No units had Krags. Perish the thought.

The United States Army. Should have been abolished in 1815.