?'s about a 6.7 million Inland

[Tuna]

No the time frame is way to long between the early type you have and the later correct ones. Well over a full year time difference between the two.

[Ls6man]

I'm not sure if the handguard is original to the rifle or not...but I wouldnt simply discredit it based on the time frame..FILO, FIFO, etc. explains how this can happen. Case in point..I've owned a '70 LS6 Chevelle where the engine assembly date and car assembly date were the same week, and I've also owned one where the time frame was out of the normal 0-3 month window but the engine was the born with block. This happens all the time in manufacturing. Keep in mind no one at Inland was thinking ahead to 2013 and some rifle they were assembling being collectible.

It is the type of thinking that you are advocating IMO that leads many original cars or guns to be "restored" incorrectly with original as manufactured parts to be removed and a more "text book" correct part added.

Just saying

[ChipS]

I have a 6,673,xxx Inland receiver with no Type 2/3 rear sight staking marks. I did put a 12-44 Inland barrel on it that had the original KI Type 3 band and Neidner (N) front sight. I believe the receiver was probably manufactured in December 1944 or January 1945.

[Tuna]

Most likely January 1945 for a 6.6 million Inland. As to the time frame with parts. You have to realize the speed that parts were used in making carbines. With such a large time frame there was no way an early hand guard was sitting in a bin for over a year. A month or two maybe but not over a year. When your carbine in the 6.7 range was made do you have any idea how many carbines a day Inland was making? About 4500 each day which translates to about 90,000 a month. And you really think a hand guard got FILO in a bin for over a year? You would have better odds playing the lottery.

[Ls6man]

I'm aware of how many rifles were being made..I've been collecting these things for a while...just not over the last 13 years.. and honestly I'm more of a German/Garand/03 guy. I'm also aware even the most experienced collector has looked at MAYBE .5% of the total number manufactured (and that is probably being WAY too generous) of truly original rifles and therefore the vast majority of what we "know" are assumptions based on the absurdly low number of truly original rifles viewed.

I'm not saying the handguard is original to the receiver...no way to tell really, but to automatically discount it based on the fact it doesnt fit into your "box" as to what is known isn't the right way IMO either.. Case in point @1997 I was on here (well the 03 section) chatting with Big Larry (where did he go BTW??) about a 1903 Springfield I was trying to pick up. This rifle had all the hall marks of being a Unertl equipped rifle..right serial range, "O" and "E" blocks, milled handguard with chatter, punch on the bottom of the barrel, filed guard, star gauge, etc....EXCEPT it was in a type "S" stock. I called Larry and we chatted. Long story short...I bought the rifle and after doing some detective work...we both determined the rifle was legit and was actually used with the type "S"..based on preference of some Marine RT member and that was how it was converted. A lot of guys based on your idea would have discounted the rifle as a fake or worse..switched the stock to a pre-war type C with NM number to make it "text book" correct...

My point is since no one on this board was there..and we can't say with 100% certainity (ie: the part wasn't made yet) it couldnt happen...sometimes you just leave it alone..same with cars as these..

Greg

[Tuna]

Carbines are NOT 03's and there is a big difference between them. 6.2 million made in less then four years by eleven different makers. Hundreds of different sub contractors and a committee that oversaw all production and improvements. Production was everything with carbines. Get them made and delivered ASAP. Parts did not stay in bins for very long and sometimes those bins were all empty as the parts were slow in getting to those makers. As I said you cannot compare the 03 to the carbine. Production was completely different.

Mr. Ruth is still around. He just published his latest update on War Baby. If you want to get into collecting carbines then I suggest you get a copy of War baby and read it from cover to cover. I think you will have a better understanding of what it took to make over 6 million carbines.

[Ls6man]

I realize carbines are not 03's....and I'm familiar with their manufacturer. I'm also familiar with lateral support and have spoken to Larry Ruth on numerous occaisions..have both of his books and ordered the 3rd book this week. I never said I was "new" to collecting carbines...just that I'd been out of it for about 13 years. I sold off a pretty large US and German collection in the late '90's and early 2000 to move back into muscle cars. I've owned most of the carbine manufacturers but concentrated on Inland and had at various points very early, early, mid, and late feature rifles (including M1A1's). When I sold off everything in 2000 a few of the M1A1's brought over $5k apiece..and went into big collectors hands off here. So while I have been away for a while..and want a refresher course as the information on the 'net has greatly increased.. I'm not brand new to this..

My whole point is even Duff, Canfield, or Ruth hasn't seen enough rifles to make 100% definative statements about some things and having an open mind and looking at everything as a whole sometimes is the best way. I would agree it is unlikely the handguard for this rifle is original to the serial...but then again who knows...I (nor you I believe) wasn't assembling them at Inland.

BTW.."Big Larry" isn't Larry Ruth..it is Larry Reynolds who back in the mid-late '90's was a very senior member on CSP (while more of a '03/Garand/shotgun guy...he had a great carbine collection)..maybe that was before your time???

[Tuna]

This has become a useless thread.

[Ls6man]

My whole point simply was if you only rely on a text book to evaluate a rifle..carbine or not..then you run the risk of replacing an original as manufactured part with a "text book" correct part which wasn't on the rifle in the first place..There are things such as wear patterns, looking for information from other rifles close to serial, etc..that should also be used. Whether you want to admit it or not..as you pointed out there were over 6 million carbines made..and how many truly original rifles has Ruth, Canfield, the carbine club, etc looked at and evaluated..MAYBE 30,000 (and that is probably WAY high)..so collectively maybe .005% of all the rifles made. Sort of puts it into perspective, at least for me..

If by me making that point it offends you...I'm sorry..but if so then you need to really get out of collecting IMO. This thread didn't apparently become "useless" until I made a point you didn't like. It is funny...Maybe this particular board hasn't changed that much in 13 years..then it was largely made up of the old "Gun and Knife" guys and "outsiders" used to complain about the secrecy of it or the apparent if "so and so" says something..it is gospel mentality..Lately I've heard from guys on other boards that attitude is still here...maybe so...the jury is out on that for me..

I'm sure some one learns from each thread posted..I know I do...so to me this or any thread isn't "useless" as I'm by no means an "expert" or "guru"

Thank you though for the information and whether you believe it or not...I appreciate your post and the insight

[Tuna]

Just so you know I have been collecting carbines since 1972. I have or had in my collection early and late Inlands including M1A1's. Early and late Winchesters including a four digit Winchester. An IP that is all original IP as well as all of the other makers of the carbine. I have or had firearms from all of the countries that fought in WW2. Some have been sold or trade to improve my collection as most collectors do. If you think I just rely on books or CC news letters your vastly mistaken. Every single book and the CC has errors in them. I have been fortunate to have very good relationships with many dealers and have looked at and noted many firearms they have gotten in and there have been surprises in some of them. But to tell me that in your opinion I should get out of collecting is quite insulting and yes you are very opinionated. My mistake was to try and get you to see something that was out of place and in reality you know it is out of place but have decided to argue it with what if. Well I will not argue with you and as I said before this thread has become useless. Hope you have a good weekend.