Not kidding on the Glocks: thousands have been purchased by DOD for mil units and are being used every day. The 9mm caliber will be very difficult to overcome simply for logistics and NATO interoperability issues.
Not kidding on the Glocks: thousands have been purchased by DOD for mil units and are being used every day. The 9mm caliber will be very difficult to overcome simply for logistics and NATO interoperability issues.
Senior Member
Been arguing this allot lately but the 9mm logic seems to be 2 to the chest, one to the head no matter what and repeat until job is done. That initself indicates a lack of faith in the round to me.
I could care less what we go to as long as they actually look at stopping power (WITH FMJ) and reliability. Seriously, with FMJ the difference between .45 and 9mm is massive.
I own firearms not to fight against my government, but to ensure I will not have to.
Regardless of caliber, any pistol cartridge has much less power than rifle caliber rounds. Furthermore, any review of trauma data by any cause clearly demonstrates capacity for humans to absorb tremendous amount of damage. Therefore, the expectation that a pistol shot, any pistol shot, can reliably and immediately cause incapacitation is merely a pipe dream. That remains true of rifle, artillery or motor vehicle accidents. As in anything, shot placement is paramount...but CNS shots can never be guaranteed past point blank distances in a dynamic environment.
Therefore: modern professional technique usually acknowledges these facts and instead advocates multi-round shot count when engaging threat adversaries: if the target is worth one, a double tap, a 2 and 1; then it just may be well worth it to use the whole magazine if applicable. That goes for rifle engagements, as well, especially at CQB distances and even more so with 5.56/Green-tip ammo.
Senior Member
There is still the big problem that the standard FMJ .45 cannot over come. It is not a penetrator when compared with the 9mm. And with cheap body armor become more common place in the sand piles the 9mm is the better of the two rounds. But as stated any pistol is a poor second compared to a rifle. The big problem with the 5.56 today is the green tip standard rounds that while they do penetrate they are just too stable and do not release enough of their energy before they exit. That was the great thing about the older M193 from the 1 in 12 twist M16. It would tumble inside and do a lot of damage. But because it was too devastating by European standards we dropped it in favor for what we now have.
Senior Member
Tuna, The M193 ammo had increased terminal ballistic performance due to the fact that it fragmented after yawing around 45 degrees. The projectile actually fractured along the cannelure. This created at least two separate wound channels. The M885 ammo also yaws (as do virtually all modern military rifle rounds) and frequently exits the target base first. It, however, does not fragment so it leaves a single wound channel. And by the way, the reason that the M193 cartridge was replaced by the M885 cartridge was due to improved penetration and long range accuracy of the M885 cartridge.
Last edited by rickgman; 08-05-2013 at 05:10.
Senior Member
Another waste of Taxpayer dollars. Just reissue the 1911, but then again how many people really need to carry a side arm? The M4 is smaller then the M16 and kinda replaces the role of the M1 carbine which was intended to replace the 1911. So except for a rare few that need a side arm why waste all the money on trials.
To Error Is Human To Forgive Is Not SAC Policy
Senior Member
M1AShooter, even though the M1 carbine was suppose to replace the M1911 pistol in the hands of many personnel, the fact of the matter is that there was still great demand for the service pistol. In fact, many officers carried both weapons. The same is true today. Just look at the number of troops who are shown in photos carrying both an M4 carbine and an M9 pistol. The more things change the more they remain the same. It is always comforting to have a back up weapon - especially when the enemy is blood thristy and vicious. One can also carry a pistol in lacations where a carbine is impractical.
Senior Member
I've never heard it put that way before.Originally Posted by Guamsst
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/outsi...call-me-maybe/
Although there are a few distractions in the video, if you look closely one can see some service pistols.
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