Joe Poyer's Sniper Book

[habu1]

I have used this book for several years and it has been most useful, however the detail can be lacking and leave you hanging. Vll would be appreciated.

[jgaynor]

i have looked at Mr. Poyer's American Sniper book in more detail. mainly i have concentrated on the M1903A4 section. Hopefully others will weigh in on the WW1 and USMC snipers. I have to say most interested people will probably benefit from the purchase of this book with a couple of provisos. It is quite reasonably priced, It contains a number of tables and a lot of dimensional data

One he makes a number of flat assertions that he does not support with backup. In the bibliography he cites the works of Clark Campbell and Bill Hansen to name but two. However I find it curious that in the case of Mr. Campbell for instance he does not use Mr. Campbell's latest (and final edition). Likewise in the case of Mr. Hansen whose extensive article on A4 production for the Remington Society is the gold standard Mr. Poyer comes to some different conclusions regarding fundamentals like serial numbers. I have to say that with data on close to 900 A4 rifles in my personal file Mr. Hansen's analysis of serial numbers is the most comprehensive and most aligns with the real world universe of known A4 rifles. So if you have that information why publish some thing different and make a jerk of of yourself?

There are some similar issues regarding the Weaver Scopes. Mr. Poyer claims the Weaver "330 Scope-M.8" is a Korean War replacement, again without any support. This directly contradicts the only information written about this scope (Peter Senich, Clark Campbell).

There are a few real gaffs in the editing. At the top of one table Mr. Poyer is describing A4 receiver markings but he:
1. Gets the nomenclature wrong. " MODEL M1903-A3" when it is actually " MODEL 03-A3"
2. Gets the location of the space for the scope base in the wrong spot.

The people who already dislike Mr. Poyer's style will find that he still uses his personal catalog of component "TYPES" for stocks, bolts, barrels etc. He does add a disclaimer to the effect that the TYPES he uses are his personal shorthand and not official. In this case it might have been helpful if he had included a brief appendix cross referencing his TYPES with pictures, drawings and even government drawing numbers.

Bottom line I think its a worthwhile addition to a library in the sense that it gets a lot of data into compact, organized, easily accesed format. Just be a little careful when he asserts that ALL rifles had this or that feature, markingand so on.

Regards,

Jim

[lonewoolf]

Thank you Mr. Gaynor. What is your opinion of his claim that no more than 200 Weaver 330C scopes were used on the early 03A4 rifles ?

[jgaynor]

Thank you Mr. Gaynor. What is your opinion of his claim that no more than 200 Weaver 330C scopes were used on the early 03A4 rifles ?

I believe it is incorrect because he appears to be including all of the commercial scopes which also have the electro-penciled "Telescope M73B1" nomenclature and "Serial No. XXXX" on the side of the tube.
According to the Remington production records included in Campbell, 2003 (pp. 338) Two (2) A4s were shipped in Feb 43 out of 100 produced. In March 43 1405 A4s' shipped after an additional 1403 were produced.

I could accept that perhaps 200 (Maybe more) straight, commercial 330C's were used in February And March just so Remington could begin to meet their badly delayed A4 delivery schedule. However despite the possibility that some of the electro-penciled scopes are fakes from what i see of the scope serial numbers The electro-penciled models run up to around 8000 or 9000 when the next version of the of the M73B1 with roll stamped nomenclature is introduced.

Another thing to keep in mind is that we (or at least I ) don't really know when the nomenclature "M73B1" was created. It was probably created around March of 43 so that the scopes could be marked. However, the first A4 Technical Manual TM 9-270, was signed off by the authority of General Marshall in early July 43 and not finally published until Sept 28, 1943. That manual makes no mention of "M73B1". It simply refers to the scope being the "Weaver 330C" and makes an offhand reference to the effect that the Lyman Alaskan may also be used but that no details on that scope are available. So the really early scopes would necessarily have been commercial models probably without military markings.

While we are on the subject Mr. Poyer states that Remington applied the electro penciled nomenclature. I had raised this point with a source I consider to be highly reliable several years ago and was advised that Remington did not have marking the scopes in their contract. Ordnance had contracted directly with Weaver to provided the scopes. Weaver, in turn. had to scramble to round up unsold scopes from wholesalers and retailers; apply the military markings and send them on to Remington. So this is another area where Mr. Poyer needs to support his assertion. BTW a few late production M73B1's survived the war still in their original, dated factory packaging. Those scopes were numbered at the factory where the number was also applied to the outside of the package.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Jim

[lonewoolf]

Great info, much appreciated, Thank you

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

A well worded and excellent analysis, Jim.

jt

[TomWatts]

@ Jim Gaynor,

Adding to your facts, I have an A4 I recently bought from CMP, it also has a 2 groove barrel dated 8-43 with the punch under the barrel. The SN is 34230XX.
Regards,
Tom

[jgaynor]

Thanks Tom! Coincidentally I have 3423505. A little unique in that it saw service with the Thais and has their marks on the receiver and stock.

Jim

[joepoyer]

Dear Lone Wolf, if you know of errors in my book, I would appreciate it if you would let me know what they are. The book is now in the 4th edition. My email is on the back cover of the book. ncape@ix.netcom.com.
Joe Poyer

[jgaynor]

Mr. Poyer, is your second volume on US snipers coming out anytime soon?

Regards,

Jim Gaynor