Army unit i.d. marching with Krags in London during WWI?

[Rick the Librarian]

There was a well-known picture of a large number of American soldier marching in a parade in London, early in our involvement in WWI. Does anyone know or remember the identification of the unit?

[5MadFarmers]

Depends on how accurate you want the granularity to be. There was a series of photos taken and this is one:



The unit wasn't identified. I suppose you could zoom in on the canteens in hopes of getting the numbers but then I'd ask: "how do you know they're not reissues?"

The photo was taken in 1917. Given the location the only 4 divisions arriving in Europe that year were the 1st, 2nd, 41st, and 42nd. The 1st shipped in June and arrived in July. The 2nd shipped in August arriving in September. The 42nd shipped in October through December with the division going into combat in January. The 41st followed the 42nd a month later - taking 4 months to ship. A shortage of shipping was starting to hurt.

So we're pretty much limited to the 1st and 2nd. Except we're not. They "attached" units to larger units whereas others were separate. A railroad battalion is needed but not attached to a division. My grandfather was in a field remount unit not attached to any division. Count the total number of soldiers in the army in WW1 or WW2 and then count the divisions. Using the full complement for a division you'll find the divisions comprised well under half the men in the army. Depot units, qm units, etc., all take up men.

Next we move to the best indicator for these men: the guns and canteens. The regular army and National Guard had '03s before the party in France began for us. The combat divisions received preference in the issue in modern arms. Thus this is likely a support unit sent to support the 1st division but technically not part of the division. The 1910 canteen was in the hands of the regular and guard troops so the round canteens again point to a support unit having old kit.

More granular than that I cannot get. A newspaper photo would likely be captioned "troops of the 1st division" but that would be technically inaccurate if I'm correct.

One of my uncles spent three years in the ETO (Sicily, Italy, Southern France, Germany) "attached" to the 45th division. His Ike jacket sported the 45th division patch. He technically wasn't, in spite of actually being deployed on the line off and on, part of the divisions. His unit, presumably, is covered in Bill Mauldin's book as Mauldin was from that division. "Combat engineers. They're the guns who put down their shovels, grab a rifle for the battle, and, after the battle is over, go back to the shovel building bridges and roads." Something to that effect.

Not directly part of the division. Simply "attached." Some more directly than others.

[Dick Hosmer]

Note the CW/early IW single hook sling in the first stack. As has been noted elsewhere, slings were used until they wore out - then they were spliced and used some more!

[PhillipM]

I believe the source is an English photographer, Christina Bloom, who took photographs to make postcards.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...m-auction.html

[Dan Shapiro]

Interesting website dedicated to the "Line of Communication" troops aka "Services of Supply"

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/freidel.htm

[70ish]

Note the CW/early IW single hook sling in the first stack. As has been noted elsewhere, slings were used until they wore out - then they were spliced and used some more!

I'm estimating that the single hook sling, with a single row of holes, is actually attached to a canteen and the single hook on the wider sling is as well. The canteens are the same surplus Civil War issues that were re-serviced for the Indian Wars, the Spanish American War and remained - most likely with many units of State troops. The wider sling was originally issued for the Haversacks that were carried up through the early 1900's and the narrower sling was the "standard" issue for the refurbished canteens. It looks like the canteens are marked with "12 ... ?" over the US. I don't have the ability to enlarge the detail very much. The nearest waist belt has some mark on it, too, but I can't say what with any certainly. Just the fact that these troops came over with Krags and IW/SAW equipments rather than '03's or '17's and the new style steel screw-on top canteens would hint that these were troops for some support function rather than a larger combat branch unit. Transportation, ordnance, MP, logistical support or......?

I hope someone has the ability to enlarge some of the images and discover who these fellas are. Ain't history fun?

[Dick Hosmer]

Yes, I think you are right. After looking again, it does appear to be on some item of equipment, as opposed to one of the rifles.

[Rick the Librarian]

The 41st Division, National Guard from the Pacific Northwest, were broken up for replacements.

[thorin6]

Did anyone notice that the rear sites are M1896?

[psteinmayer]

I imagine that there are several different rear sights. It's possible that my 1898 is in this picture... I know that it was used in France in 1917/18, and may have made it's way via these troops. Anyway... I would LOVE to have one of those stacks!!!