M-1 Bullet Weights--Any clear accuracy champ by weight?

[John Kepler]

Yeah.....well, that's one of the reasons that those of us old farts that started out XC shooting the "Big Iron" went up at least one classification when we shifted to the AR......the more ergonomic platform makes that much of a difference!

If I may slide into "Coach Mode". With NOTHING pejorative intended.....the "problem" isn't with your loads, it's with your positions! The Garand in particular is brutally unforgiving of positional defects...that you are ending up looking like you've been in a bar-fight is a clear indicator that there's something wrong with your "rifle-shooter interface"....something more than a change in loads is going to completely correct. You need to accept the fact that the AR, and to a degree, your 6.5 (I've shot one several times.....it's a LOT like shooting an AR, and absolutely NOTHING like shooting a "Big-30") have let you acquire some bad habits that the Garand is simply exposing. Get back to basics.....analyze your position....are you "locking in", or are you "sloppy? Are you RELIGIOUSLY setting your NPOA before you start the string, or are you attempting to "muscle" your way around an NPOA "defect" (a .30 cal will expose this little positional faux pas glaringly in your rapids where it won't even bother you in an AR!)? All a lighter load in your Garand will do is (maybe) spackle over the defects that are the source of your problem...but they won't truly fix anything!

[Maury Krupp]

With either IMR/H4895 or IMR4064 I've never had any issues with the Sierra 175MK in an M1.

I did have major issues with it when paired with VV N140. Which was too bad as N140 is a great (if expensive and sometimes hard to find) powder.

If the Hornady or other bullet will work where a Sierra won't that's worth knowing.

If you're getting bruised by your M1 then that is a position/spot-weld defect. You should recoil and roll with the rifle as one.

As far as lighter bullets being a band-aid I think that's only partly true. I can and have shot some good rapid strings with the 168s but I've shot more with the 125s and 135s. Yes, like the ratgun the lighter bullets can let you get away with things you shouldn't. But the bottom line is they're simply easier to shoot, easier on the shooter, and they get the job done. Every nail doesn't need to be driven with a 16lb sledge.

Or to paraphrase John when it comes to results: "The target doesn't care what weight bullet is punching the hole"

Maury

[John Kepler]

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As far as lighter bullets being a band-aid I think that's only partly true. I can and have shot some good rapid strings with the 168s but I've shot more with the 125s and 135s. Yes, like the ratgun the lighter bullets can let you get away with things you shouldn't. But the bottom line is they're simply easier to shoot, easier on the shooter, and they get the job done. Every nail doesn't need to be driven with a 16lb sledge.

Or to paraphrase John when it comes to results: "The target doesn't care what weight bullet is punching the hole"

Maury

Absolutely....but then Maury, I've watched you shoot more than once and you have near textbook position! I didn't say it wouldn't make a difference, but that it wasn't the majority of the problem....some rather obvious positional defects are! That, and I am ALWAYS reluctant to ascribe a "hardware" solution to a problem that is far more likely, completely, and durably to be solved by "software".....and someone getting pasted by a rifle has a lot more wrong with the "software" than a "hardware" solution of a lighter weight bullet is going to fix! That nagging pain in your left shoulder and the sweats isn't always something you can fix with Bengay and a fan! Fix the underlying "software" problem.....then mess with "hardware" if you still need the fine tuning. YMMV!

Oh....and one little admission of bias. As Maury can tell anyone....I'm a rather large person and recoil has never been a huge issue for me.

[Amanda4461]

Well daggone, here I was looking for a light-kicking cure to my Garanditis:-)
No doubt, my hold is not perfect. I am the one who shoots in a t-shirt. I don't use a shooting coat, cause I hate the sweats I get in the 100F Texas sun. I do use the 1903 sling and a nice glove. Recoil probably isn't the reason I have problems with rapid-fire sitting, since it doesn't bother my off-hand or prone. Too much belly makes it hard to breath in rapid. I am really just looking for something that will let me shoot a lot more practice at 200 yards without kicking my face black and blue. I tend to crawl up on the rear peep and get as good a sight picture as I can. M-1 is much harder to get away with that than the AR, but I am old-fashioned and prefer the old wood rifles. If a 125 to 155 grain bullet is accurate enough at 200 yards to hold the ten-ring, I can shoot a hundred at a session and maybe not be too beat up.
Thanks for the ideas!
Amanda

[Parashooter]

Don't overlook the little Sierra 110-grain HP #2110 - even less recoil than the 125's, low price, and usually groups just fine for 200-yard work.

[Parashooter]

. . . For whatever reason, the Sierra 175 ball has a HUGE barrel bearing area, and the smart money says this is why you get pressure signs in a Garand. . .but it's hard to beat a Sierra 168 MatchKing for just about anything except Long Range.

A little checking seems to show that the Sierra 175 and 168 are virtually identical forward of the boattail junction. If there's a significant difference in bearing surface, I can't find it in those I have on hand.

[John Kepler]

Point being? Oh.....and I can see a difference in bearing area in YOUR pictures....and that's just with a plain old Mk.I Eyeball. FWIW, the issue is more a case of loading and resistance to acceleration. When you want to, check the 175 against a 178 A-Max.....then shoot it. That's when you find out that Sierra doesn't have all the answers.

BTW.....you still shooting molys?

[Parashooter]

Point being? Oh.....and I can see a difference in bearing area in YOUR pictures....and that's just with a plain old Mk.I Eyeball. FWIW, the issue is more a case of loading and resistance to acceleration.

BTW.....you still shooting molys?

Here's some help for those Mk.I eyeballs and my crummy photo -


Earlier photo zoomed in on tail end of bearing surface.

Near as I can tell from eyeballing and measuring these things up close and personal, there is no significant difference in bearing surface between the two. (Definitely not more than .020".) Now you tell us, "the issue is more a case of loading and resistance to acceleration." Previously it was, "the Sierra 175 ball has a HUGE barrel bearing area, and the smart money says this is why you get pressure signs in a Garand." Oh well, what was it Emerson said about hobgoblins?

I stopped beating myself up with .30 calibers at long-range eons ago (after collecting an unexpected Palma pin with a service mousegun the first year they were allowed at Perry) - but still have a few dozen of those moly-coated 175's gathering dust.

[PhillipM]

I tried the 125 TNT's and may need to do it again since my position and scores have improved. I just couldn't get good accuracy with them until they were driven near max loads and at that point they kicked as hard as anything else.

I've gone through 600 or so of the Nosler 155 custom competitions and have had the highest scores with this bullet and most of my matches are shot at 200.

For sitting undo your pants and loosen your belt, just not enough for your pants to fall off when commanded to rise.

Everyone else posting above has much more experience shooting Garands than I do, but I am in the silver medal range now.

BTW 155's are in stock at Midway by the 1000 as of right now. I just ordered a box, $247 to my door.

[Amanda4461]

Phillip,
Thanks for the loosen the belt idea. definitely don't want to subject the folks behind the line to my tighty-whiteys! Unfortunately, as soon as I read this, I tried Midway. They are out already, so I put a notify-me in for the 155gr Nosler. Hopefully, I won't have to stuff the case full of 4064 to get them accurate in my rifle.
Amanda