The 1911 "fatal flaw" controversy

[Guamsst]

It has been interesting to see how the discussion shifted to cover issues related to Glocks, however, numerous law enforcement and military units worldwide appear content and confident in the model to issue various models of the Glock- including in the USA (such as the FBI among many others including DOD).

The thread got derailed because I put a penny on the tracks..........
1911s are also used by those same listed orgs.....which was the point I tried to make to this goober on facebook. There is no perfect pistol for everyone.

[Guamsst]

..........I never had to throw that third shot to the head to get the evil forces of NVM to cease and desist their bad behavior. Nick

This is what really bugged me about the guy, he kept saying the 1911 was basically useless for self defense. Like it or not, it isn't as if somehow, because it is an old design it becomes less effective. The first club used to kill primitive man is just as deadly today. Might not be as good as a knife, sword or gun, but it will still do the job.

[Ken Hill]

I might have said this already at a different time. When I attended the Glock armorers course I told the instructors that I thought the Glock was the ultimate survival pistol and that it could never be matched by the 1911. They asked "HOW IS THAT?"

My reply was that "you could set it on fire and it would keep your hands warm for three days!"

My Glock 36 has the finger grooves milled off of the front strap and I heavily stippled that area along with both sides of the grip and back strap. I did it with a soldering iron in the same manner Barstow Barrels modify the Glock's that they work on. I believe Barstow was the inspiration for the Gen 4's which have a very moderate stipple by comparison. I have also done this to the Glock 27 in .40 cal which is a nasty little pistol to hold onto right out of the box with +P+ loads.

[Guamsst]

Just realised tonight that the H&K USP has the same "fatal flaw". I think it says allot about the "seriousness" of the flaw that one of the most respected gun manufacturers in the world did not consider it an issue on one of their modern designs.

[bobby L]

Thanks for everyone's input. I learned a lot from everyone's experience and opinons of the 1911 Auto. I had been fairly accurate when firing one in the Army and later in life bought one for home protection and target shooting. While at the range, the slide stop pin did drift out on two occasions and I naively thought it was the gun and not my two handed hold. I therefore bought a replacement slide stop pin and did my "dimpling" of it where it contacted with the plunger pin and that corrected the problem, other than making disassembly a bit more difficult.

After hearing of others experiences and opinons I'm convinced that in the interst of an easy take down for cleaning, that original slide stop pin was left protruding from the frame with no one thinking of two handed holds becoming the preferred way of shooting. A simple adjustment of that pin like I did, knowing that a knife blade would be a necessary tool when cleaning the pistol, is in my book a small price to pay for being able to use a superior way of "point shooting" when sight aiming at a threat or threats isn't practicle. I've yet to practice point shooting using the index finger to point at the target, but one thing i do know just from dry firing using the method. I will have to make sure my hold is firm enough to disengage that grip safety to my satisfaction and I will have to "educate" my middel, now trigger finger, to do more than just say "hi" to my fellow drivers as I make my way to work each day.

[BlitzKrieg]

fatal: leading to failure

Since the design is now north of 100 years old and seems to be stronger than ever, when did it fail?

What we have here is human malfunction alive and well. Training trumps novice nonsense every time.
100 plus years of service and now, we have this nonsense. No.... that dog don't hunt.

[da gimp]

think the kid wants to be recognized for putting forth a solution for a 1911 pistol, & it ended up being much like Jeff Coopers "Scout Rifle"..........another solution in search of a problem to fix...........

[Maury Krupp]

From the Manual for Noncommissioned Officers and Privates of Field Artillery of the Army of the United States December 31 1917 Volume I, Chapter II Arms, Uniforms, and Equipment, Section 2 The Pistol, Important Point (3):

"The trigger should be pulled with the forefinger. If the trigger is pulled with the second finger, the forefinger extending along the side or the receiver is apt to press against the projecting pin of the slidle stop and cause a jam when the slide recoils."

So just pull the d*mn trigger with your forefinger like the Drill Sergeant told you to do and problem solved.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Maury

[Guamsst]

So, as early as 1917 it was identified as operator error....LOL

[bobby L]

Then I guess you would never in any case alter the pin and not be able to point shoot using the index finger to point... because, the pistol would be easier to clean after shooting. Call me crazy.... but I would and did alter it... because it could give me an edge on making sure that I would be the one doing the cleaning.