German made double rifle info

[GBEAR1]

Thanks for your research. Very Interesting. I must admit that I am surprised the rifle dates back that far. I think I had mentioned that this rifle is set up for scope claw mounts. Were claw mounted scopes in use during the 1891 to 1893 time frame?

[kcw]

Thanks for your research. Very Interesting. I must admit that I am surprised the rifle dates back that far. I think I had mentioned that this rifle is set up for scope claw mounts. Were claw mounted scopes in use during the 1891 to 1893 time frame?

Yes, they were around at that time and before. Typically a rifle such as yours would have been originally set up with iron sights, commonly with a three leaf rear "express" leaf sight placed in a dovetailed rib on the barrel. Often the leaf sight was removed from the rib and the front claw scope mount inserted in its place on break action rifles when scopes were added. Generally the front sight remained. Does your rifle still have the front iron sight, or show evidence that it did have one?

[GBEAR1]

Yes it has a standard non express rear sight dovetailed into the rib. I am not familiar with the claw mount set up so the one on this rifle seems strange to me. There are 3 mounting points . The rear one has 2 spring loaded knurled bars that move rearward to allow the claw into the slots. The next or center one has 2 slots in it and is center dove tailed into the rib. The forward most one has two slots and is dove tailed into rib only it is off set to the left approx half an inch. Ahead of that is the rear sight dove tailed into the rib.

[kcw]

Yes it has a standard non express rear sight dovetailed into the rib. I am not familiar with the claw mount set up so the one on this rifle seems strange to me. There are 3 mounting points . The rear one has 2 spring loaded knurled bars that move rearward to allow the claw into the slots. The next or center one has 2 slots in it and is center dove tailed into the rib. The forward most one has two slots and is dove tailed into rib only it is off set to the left approx half an inch. Ahead of that is the rear sight dove tailed into the rib.

The typical setup I've seen would be the spring loaded rear base with TWO slots ; and a forward base, also with two slots but no spring. The scope (with rings/claws attached) was tipped downward so as to engage the forward claws into the front mount slots, and then the claws on the rear where lowered into the rear base; the spring pressure in that base FIRMLY affixing both sets of claws into their bases. I don't know why there would be two forward style bases installed on y our gun UNLESS the idea was that it was setup in that fashion to also allow the use of a longer scope , which might well require a longer distance between the rear and forward bases. I'm guessing that the most forward base on your rifle simply needs to be properly recentered in its dovetail. FYI, I did a bit of research into Max Fischer. It seems that his shop was a substantial producer of double barreled arms, including pistols, as far back as the 1870's. Apparently the place was in operating up until WWII, when it was bombed out of existance. I highly doubt that it was a specific target for the 8th Air Force, rather it just happened to be in the wrong place (Berlin) at the wrong time.
I don't know how standardized the specs on those scope bases were, and I've never measured them. It may be that they were like Weaver base specs, regardless of who made them, with the top side being of standard demensions and the bottoms custom fit to a particular model gun? From the examples I've seen the claws did require some fitting (filing) to get them to fit properly. FYI, You can still buy those German style claw/ring setups as new. You can get modern 1" rings with them. Unfortunately they don't seem to come cheap (about $250 last I knew). A few years ago I was able to purchase a shim/bushing pac which allowed me to install a 1" scope into WWI era rings that were about 34mm on a guild 98 sporter Mauser "bringback". The rear lense in the orignal scope (WWI German military marked surplus) was cracked.

NOTE: If you do a search for "German Claw Mounts" on E-bay there are several examples of both the forward and rear bases which I've referred to.

[GBEAR1]

You are the MAN. You know I have never owned one of these untill now. I would often admire them at gun shows but because of my lack of knowledge and the sometimes hefty price tags I never went deeper. Even though this is only a medium bore rifle and may of never been used in Africa or India it was around during the colonial period when the great white hunters had their hay day. I must admitt that this rifle is growing on me and that I may even load for it. I do not know how to post photos on this site but with your permission I would like to send you some photos. I may also take it to the Baltimore show comming soon . There are people from all over the world there that may possibly give additional input.

[Tuna]

I can almost see a well to do German hunter stalking a stag in the Black forest with your rifle.

[older than dirt]

We really need pics of your rifle. See if you can find a familly member or friend to post them for you.

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

It may be obvious, and maybe I missed other posters commenting before, but you may have a rifle that is intended for a .318 inch round when more modern loads would use a .323 round.

One of the posters on this board [-- having a brain blank -- can't remember who] commented in great detail about the dangers of firing the larger round. So a chamber cast is essential, and could save your life or eyesight.

[GBEAR1]

Yes thankyou. I believe it does use the .318 bullet.

[kcw]

Yes thankyou. I believe it does use the .318 bullet.

If 172.28 gauge = a .308 bore; and you add .005 deep grooves around it you get..... .318