Hathcock's Kills

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

I was reading some recently unclassified military documents and came across Hathcock's kill estimates, which were the usual 93 confirmed kills with ... get this ... "in excess of 300 unconfirmed kills". This is the first time I had seen the unconfirmed estimate in a military document. Amazing. Simply amazing.

Of the 600 marine snipers Hathcock trained, only one was killed in combat.

Jim

[plastrr385]

WOW thats amazing both in the unconfirmed and training!

[Art]

With all due respect to Hathcock, who I am certain killed many more than 93 VC/NVA fighters, anything that was "unconfirmed" in Viet Nam especially or any other war in general is not to be taken seriously.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Not so fast, Art. They discussed the unconfirmed kills to some degree. For example, the company of VC that Cpl. Burke and Hathcock held at bay for over two days were all unconfirmed kills, although it was estimated Hathcock killed 60-75 of them. The reason given for considering them all unconfirmed kills was that on the last day Burke called in for an artillery barrage. The Marines did not want to take the time to examine 150 bodies for bullet holes versus shrapnel holes for something not considered important at the time. If just those kills were counted, he would easily be the most successful US sniper of all time. Another reason was that Hathcock often operated alone on assigned missions, such as the killing of the general after a three day crawl across a field in enemy territory (considered unconfirmed in the count). Even when other witnesses were present, like then Capt. Jim Land as a witness to the killing of Apache and her bodyguard, the kills were considered unconfirmed because no one examined or retrieved the bodies (Hathcock shot her twice to be certain she was dead). His 93 confirmed kills were taken from AAR's after the war. During his first tour, it was estimated that he had three kills per day in the field; but at that time, he was forbidden to keep track of his kills, as were all Marine snipers. Being stationed at Hill 55 (Indian Country/Elephant Valley, etc), there was no shortage of targets.

Not only was Hathcock incredibly brave, but he was also one hell of a shot, being a Distinguished Shooter, Wimbledon winner, etc.. I don't doubt the estimates one bit. To top it off, Hathcosk liked his job, and made no bones about it. He was a Marine's Marine who did his job exceptionally well.

Jim

[Scott Wilson]

I believe that the standard for a confirmed kill was to have a witness or two or be able to walk out and put your boot on the body. I imagine that there were many instances where neither was feasable. Think of all of the nice shots that you have made over a lifetime that no one was there to see.

[Art]

I didn't say Hathcock wasn't incredibly brave or that he didn't kill more than 93 enemy soldiers, he did I'm sure. Unconfirmed means just that, unconfirmed. That's why fighter pilots don't get to claim "probables" as kills which would inflate their totals as well.

I think Bong and McGuire probably both shot down more than 40 Japanese aircraft too.

I'm also sure that if those Soviet snipers in WW II got credit for killing privates (they didn't) their scores would have been higher as well.

[Litt'le Lee]

so you are turning the discussion to another subject when you are faced with the truth,,there is no doubt to the claims of White Feather as he had no reason to LIE,as you put forth !!!

[Art]

so you are turning the discussion to another subject when you are faced with the truth,,there is no doubt to the claims of White Feather as he had no reason to LIE,as you put forth !!!

Excuse me. If you think I'm accusing Hathcock of lying I'm not. There are "doubts" as to the unconfirmed claims of anyone and the possibility that Hathcock may have been mistaken about something dosen't make him a liar. An unconfirmed kill is just that, unconfirmed.

If you're going to accuse me of something I would really appreciate it if you got it right.

[m1nut]

I think the fact that only one sniper he has trained out of 600 actually died in combat is very impressive in itself. Inless that is unconfirmed and then well....

[Art]

I think the fact that only one sniper he has trained out of 600 actually died in combat is very impressive in itself. Inless that is unconfirmed and then well....

I'm pretty sure that number is confirmed