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Gentlemen:
I have read where Argentina routinely ground off the crest from the receiver on many of their rifles prior to export. All else being equal does that detract a lot from the value? Thinking of bidding on one, unsure how much of a issue that would be. Thanks God bless Lenny
There were a lot of Argentine Mausers imported with the crest intact. So with a ground crest there is little collector value but the 1909 actions were frequently used for sporterized rifles. As a shooter the crest does not make much difference but it should be much cheaper than an unaltered rifle. I guess it could be polished out to point it would look as if the crest was never there.
Early exports were ground. which includes almost 100% of the 1891's and maybe 10%? of 1909's. I have never seen an unground 91 while I have only seen maybe 6-8 ground 1909's. Some 1909's were also re-chambered for 30/06 as the 7.65 ammo was hard to get. These are inaccurate. Done by the importer they should be stamped 30-06.
As gwp says little collector value and I would add, wait and get a crested rifle, resale will always be higher and of course price you pay will be too. But ground they are worth the price of an action only, maybe 200 dollars. Unless your budget is extremely small wait for a crested rifle, they are not rare or even scarce! Yes, it is a big issue!
PS: I might add, the 91's were ground in a very rough sloppy manor, like jap rifles. The 09's I have seen are done very neat and you may not notice if you did not know there was a crest to start with! Many of the bayo's were also ground!
Gentlemen:
Thank you very much for the information. Looked to be a good buy other than the grinding, which looks very crudely done. Will keep searching. Thanks again Lenny
I'd like to add some info on the 1891 rifles and carbines. I've owned several of each and every rifle I've come across had the crest ground off. All of the 1891 carbines I've encountered had intact crests. I've yet to see an 1898-09 rifle or carbine without the crest.
Lastly, most all of the 1891 rifles I've encountered looked like they had never been issued prior to Argentina surplusing them. All the carbines looked to be well used and most had pitted bores. Many of the 09 rifles are like new and most of the 09 carbines looked like they had been ridden hard and put up wet. JMTC's
Yep . .. as a matter of fact . . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in NGA
I have two '09's that are flat-out brand new . . . . with consecutive serials . . . . complete with the "test" targets wrapped around the butt stocks!
I carefully removed one of the targets to find the writing in Spanish, dated (don't remember the date), and serial number noted.
I'm not sure, however, if the targets were fired in Germany or after the rifles were in Argentina (maybe a condition of acceptance by the Argentine government??) --Jim
Some collectors claim a lot, if not all 1909's without a crest, never had a crest as there is just no way you can tell if ground. Some have went so far as to use calipers and mikes on them, they claim. I have never seen one crudely ground. While bayos and 91's were all crudely done---why would they change procedure when they got to the 1909's?
Just a thought.
I've got several of both the 1891 and 1909 Argentine Mausers...all the '91's ground, none of the '09's ground.
I wouldn't say that any of my '91's were "roughly ground"...certainly not as bad as my Japanese rifles.
http://i.imgur.com/Kfv9mwS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sfEmzmk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wyW7xDw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9rRWSdI.jpg
Some were and some were not, but 'the grind' can be seen at a glance.
That is certainly true. I've seen a few unground M1891's, but the unground ones seem to be either non-matching or in rough shape. Wierd.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave
I have an 1891 Argentine Mauser that has the Crest Intact Attachment 45789