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5 Attachment(s)
1911 RIA Bayonet
A friend gave me a 1911 RIA bayonet, 205726, that belonged to his dad who was in the Army a long time ago. It appears to be chromed and the leather scabbard is coming apart slightly where the top metal attaches.
The wood handle is smooth with no trace of lines or ridges in it.
I tried putting it on my M1 and Remington 1903 and it wouldn't quite lock into place. I might try and take it apart and clean up the attaching mechanism real good.
My questions are:
- Is this an original scabbard?
- If I strip off the chrome plating, will it hurt the value?
- Due to the chrome plating, is there any value?
- Is the wood handle original w/o the ridges or did he replace it or sand it smooth?
- Any history as to why this bayonet looks the way it does? My friend doesn't know anything other than it was his dad's. Details about the 205726 number?
Hopefully the pictures load correctly. It was hard getting a good picture because of the chrome reflecting.
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5 Attachment(s)
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zeewad,
Your scabbard is original, but it is considered "substitute standard". It is a Model 1917 scabbard made for the M1917 bayonet, but was used as substitute for the 1910 or later the M3 scabbards. The grips look correct. The early grips had shallow ribs and were often worn smooth. They could have been sanded when the bayonet was chromed. The plating might be part of the reason it doesn't fit on you rifles. A chromed bayonet is usually less desirable than an original finish bayonet, however if you take off the chrome, you will end up with a bayonet with no finish at all. That is worse than having a chrome bayonet. Your bayonet looks nice chromed. It was likely chromed for parade use by a VFW group or other military group. The only chrome I'd remove is the part that affects the mounting of the bayonet. A chromed bayonet is a worthy part of any collection. On the 1911 bayonet, the blade was left "white" and the rest was blued or parkerized or magnesium phosphate(d). I'd leave it as is.
Marv
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You might have to take a file to the locking latch and remove some metal.
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Thanks for the info. Is the Model 1917 scabbard rare because it was not used as much or are there a lot of them still around?
How difficult would it be to find the correct scabbard for the RIA 1911 bayonet?
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Any scarcity of the Model 1917 scabbards would be due to their deterioration and rotting away. With that said, they are not rare at all. If you would prefer the appropriate scabbard, it is called an M3 scabbard (not to be confused with the M3 trench knife or anything related). Like scabbards in general, they are sometimes hard to find by themselves. They come up fairly regularly on ebay and will cost you between $60 to $100 depending on condition. I just noticed a couple of USN scabbards that would work for your 1911, but it was made for a Navy training bayonet, but was undoubtedly used for Marine and Army M1 bayonets in the course of things.
Now, if you want a scabbard that was used in the year 1911, then you might have a little harder time. It would be the canvas covered 1910 scabbard, or the leather 1905 scabbard (or the modified 1905) . They come around every once and a while, but they can be pricey. I have a great idea. Buy Gary Cunningham's brand new book: U.S. Knife Bayonets & Scabbards. It's a very good book.
Marv
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The original issue scabbard would have been the Model 1910 as pictured below. The M3 scabbard was a WWII issue fiber scabbard.
The bayonet shown (dated 1916) is in the original finish with a bright polished blade, with about 1/4" still blue at the hilt.
http://i61.tinypic.com/icrb6e.jpg
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Excellent info. Thanks. Since the bayonet is chromed, I probably won't make too much of an effort to find just a scabbard. Especially since the canvas ones may be hard to find. And the bayonet isn't from any of my relatives.
Sure wish I still had the bayonet that my uncle had when he was in the marines. My brother lost it to the movers back in 1968 when we moved to a new house. My uncle's bayonet was 16 inches, at least it seemed like it when I was 9yrs old playing with it, and it had plastic black handles. I think the blade was dark or black. It was in excellent shape and well oiled.
