View Full Version : Civil war in Russia???
5thDragoons
06-23-2023, 04:01
Things are getting hot quickly there, and confirmed reports are few at the moment. Prigozhin (head of the mercenary Wagner Group) is wanted for trying to incite a coup against Putin. Wagner's main base has been surrounded by OMON (para-military police force and genuine bad asses). FSB (formerly KGB) has a warrant for Prigozhin... Wagner commanders loyal to Prigozhin are mobilizing...
Unconfirmed reports suggest certain Russian army units will be recalled to "maintain order".
Moscow is under "Citadel Law" - just short of martial law. I try not to buy into negative news, but this is actually big. SW
If we could just get China, Iran and NK to follow also.
Embalmer
06-23-2023, 06:10
Fighting has begun as lead columns of Wagner crossed into Russia on way to moment.
Fighting has begun as lead columns of Wagner crossed into Russia on way to moment.
In Russia these things seem to be settled very quickly...we'll see.
Embalmer
06-24-2023, 01:56
Took over military complex in ronstov including supplies storage and a airfield. They just drove around the roadblocks while russian troops just watched. Looks like getting ready to send armored vehicles further in towards Moscow.
Way putin is reacting, seems genuinely concerned about ability to protect Moscow. If that other guy did intentionally target wagners camps, then he def bit the wrong hand as they were more successful in Ukraine then Russia has been. He def seems he'll bent to end the Ukraine hostilities in Moscow now that he's been scorned. Other side of coin is the likelihood of Russia going scorched earth just increased to try to save face from massive defeat.
Major Tom
06-24-2023, 04:48
I'll side with the Wagner group and hope they can end the war in Ukraine and also Biden's money laundering with Zewlinsky!
Embalmer
06-24-2023, 05:18
Wagner seizes military facilities in second city
Wagner fighters have taken control of all military facilities in the city of Voronezh, a halfway point between Rostov-on-Don (where Wagner also says it's in charge) and the capital Moscow.
Voronezh city officials are yet to publicly comment on the claim.
Meanwhile, Voronezh region governor Aleksandr Gusev has warned that there are many fake reports circulating about a movement of an armoured column in the region.
He also says the Russian armed forces are now carrying out "operational and combat measures" in the Voronezh region as part of the early declared counter-terrorist operation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66006142
Putin talks about civil war and coup
Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that Russia is "fighting for survival" and that there are attempts to "organise a rebellion" in the country.
Source: Putin, during his video address
Quote from Putin: "I am addressing those who have been drawn by deception or threats into a criminal adventure, onto the path of the grave crime of armed rebellion...
This is a stab in the back of the country and the people.
This is exactly the blow dealt to Russia in 1917 when the country was fighting the First World War. But the victory was stolen from it. Intrigues, squabbles, and politicking behind the backs of the army and the people resulted in the most significant upheaval, the destruction of the army and the collapse of the state, and the loss of vast territories. It resulted in the tragedy of the civil war...
We will not allow this to happen again. We will protect our people and our statehood from any threats. In particular, from domestic betrayal.
And treason is exactly what we have faced. Excessive ambitions and personal interests have led to treason...
I repeat that any internal turmoil is a deadly threat to our statehood and our nation. This is a blow to Russia, to our people."
Putin did admit the situation in Rostov-on-Don was "difficult" following Wagner's claims it had seized control of the airport and army headquarters in the city near the Ukrainian border.
"There will be decisive measures taken on stabilizing the situation in Rostov-on-Don," Putin told the nation.
www.pravda.com.ua
Putin talks about civil war and coup in address
Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that Russia is “fighting for survival” and that there are attempts to “organise a rebellion” in the country.
www.pravda.com.ua www.pravda.com.ua
Vern Humphrey
06-24-2023, 06:49
This is the end anyone could have predicted -- Putin basically committed suicide when he invaded the Ukraine.
Embalmer
06-24-2023, 07:30
-Wagner forces reported 2 hours from Moscow city center
-Russia 22nd special forces brigade and quite a few border guards swapped sides and joined Wagner
- chechen forces rolling towards Wagner
Defenses being built around Moscow, bridges wired to blow if they get close
Troop transport and 2 other aircraft shot down killing all in board by Wagner
Putin has fled Moscow via aircraft
This is definitely not what expected to be reading today.
It seems that the military and civilian leaders of Rostov and Verozneh have declared their cities "open." Prigozhin has been complaining bitterly and publicly for some time about incompetence both at the staff level in Moscow and in the senior leadership in the field. He commands some of the most capable and well equipped Russian troops but has been having serious trouble with supply including, but not limited to, ammunition from the start of the campaign. The last straw seems to have been an air strike on one of his camps which he blames on the Russian hierarchy.
Having two elite free standing divisions with organic armor and artillery simply pull out of the line and march north can't be good for the Russian situation on every level imaginable. If I were in the Ukrainian command, and they aren't stupid, I'd know where my next move would be.
both the 1917 and 1990 revolutions occurred when the military, led by the "rank and file" decided it could no longer support the government and went over to the rebels. If that happens the end will come quickly. If the military decides to stick with Putin they have enough sheer mass to to defeat the rebel forces though that will take longer.
Mercenary...its a bit of a stretch to call the Wagner group mercenaries in the usual sense anymore than to call the defenders of the CIA complex in Bengazhi mercenaries. The Wagner group is made up of former Russian military members, many from elite units who are, basically, fighting for Russia through a proxy corporation for better pay based on their experience and skill set. In some ways they are more like the Waffen SS which was not part of the German Army as such but rather "the "Party Army." They have just been used heavily in the "Special Operations" mode rather than as line units which is what their function in the Ukraine has been. Probably the most "mercenary" organization operating for a major country is the French Foreign Legion which operates exclusively outside of "Maritime France" and is made up largely of non French nationals.
Well, it appears that Putin and Prigozhin have come to a 'meeting of the minds" and the Wagner group troops marching on Moscow have halted about 200 miles out from the city. As of yet nobody besides the parties involved know exactly what the deal involves. Prigozhin has been calling for a shake up in the defense establishment that included the sacking of the Minister of Defense and the Chief of Staff so it's possible that they'll be gone but who can say. He's also publicly said that the war was predicated on the falsehood that somehow The Ukraine was a NAZI state and was a mistake from the get - go. If he was just a regular Rooskie on the street any of this would have landed him in some awful labor camp or worse. Its still really possible, I think that it will be announced in the not too distant future that Prigozhin has been killed in a Ukrainian artillery bombardment or something which would solve Putin's problem but who knows about that either.
I suspect that one thing that is sure to come from this is a lot of pressure on old Vlad to make a deal on the Ukraine war that perhaps may include some sort of face saving fig leaf for Putin, but Zelenski has ben playing hard ball on that so he would have to be brought into line too.
Nothing would surprise me on this cluster fornication right now.
Its a real tough time to be a Russian soldier, I do know that for sure.
5thDragoons
06-24-2023, 12:47
Priggy is a dead man - there's no way Putin can let him off with a forgive and forget kiss on the cheek. SW
Vern Humphrey
06-24-2023, 01:00
Priggy is a dead man - there's no way Putin can let him off with a forgive and forget kiss on the cheek. SW
Putin is probably dead, too. His chances of surviving this are vanishingly small.
Putin is probably dead, too. His chances of surviving this are vanishingly small.
This may be in one of the above articles but I read where Poot'n took off in his presidential plane, headed North from Moscow and turned off the transponder so radar couldn't pick up his location or track him.
At this point I feel he is safe in Brazil or most anywhere.
Vern Humphrey
06-24-2023, 05:46
This may be in one of the above articles but I read where Poot'n took off in his presidential plane, headed North from Moscow and turned off the transponder so radar couldn't pick up his location or track him.
At this point I feel he is safe in Brazil or most anywhere.
Could be. The news now is the mutiny is called off, and no one will be prosecuted. And if you believe that, I've got a bridge in Massachusetts for sale.
Could be. The news now is the mutiny is called off, and no one will be prosecuted. And if you believe that, I've got a bridge in Massachusetts for sale.
After reading the latest, it says that the Wagner group military will go back to fighting side by side with the Russian troops in the Ukraine.
Something fishy is going on.
Vern Humphrey
06-24-2023, 06:20
Yep. Last I read was the Russian military was destroying the streets/payment surrounding Moscow to keep Wagner's group out. Civilians were trying to buy plane tickets to get out.
Let's keep low so they don't hit us with a stray shot.
Embalmer
06-25-2023, 03:35
Definitely most anti climatic rebellion I've ever seen
Vern Humphrey
06-25-2023, 05:59
Definitely most anti climatic rebellion I've ever seen
The Russians are good at embarking on vast undertakings with half-vast ideas.
Phloating Phlasher
06-25-2023, 11:47
Something fishy is going on.
I'll say!
Fishy? No. Money talked. You know the rest. Sincerely. bruce.
You should not rely on the propaganda that is coming from Ukraine, Russia, or the U.S.!
Bottom line is that humanity does not need this Prigozhin guy to command thousands of nukes.
Tom Trevor
06-25-2023, 06:36
Prigozhin and his 25,000 man army will now retire in Blarus to drink and enjoy the scenery. Or Belarus president dies suddenly and Wagner forces take over country for Putin and attack Ukraine from the north. All just a ruse to get them into Belarus?
Phloating Phlasher
06-25-2023, 06:40
You should not rely on the propaganda that is coming from Ukraine, Russia, or the U.S.!
Oh I never do.
That's the scary part. If Russia collapses again what happens. It's one thing to raid bunkers for AK's and rockets.
Prigozhin and his 25,000 man army will now retire in Blarus to drink and enjoy the scenery. Or Belarus president dies suddenly and Wagner forces take over country for Putin and attack Ukraine from the north. All just a ruse to get them into Belarus?
Prigozhin's forces are, reportedly, being given Russian Army contracts and folded back into units in the fighting in Ukraine. It seems real possible to me that Putin may be already scheming to take old Priggy out after the dust settles.
You should not rely on the propaganda that is coming from Ukraine, Russia, or the U.S.!
Bottom line is that humanity does not need this Prigozhin guy to command thousands of nukes.
Very True.
However, I heard an interesting commentary from a retired U.S. Army general that makes sense. It is also a damning indictment of the current Russian military that a man who made his fortune as a caterer may have been the best mind in the Rooskie armed forces.
This fellow held that Prigozhin put all of his heavy tracked armored vehicles on transporters at the head of the column and his infantry in vehicles following on. He then drove hell for leather north figuring correctly that no one would seriously oppose him. He was correct in this and took three major cities, essentially, without a fight. Moscow was "defended" only by staff troops, some reservists and M.P.s, hardly a match for two divisions of the best troops available to the Russians. That being the case it appeared that Prigozhin's chances of actually taking Moscow were excellent.
So why did he lose his guts?? Inquiring minds want to know.
As Churchill said; "Russia is an enigma wrapped in a riddle."
Vern Humphrey
06-26-2023, 08:45
Break out the popcorn -- this will be an interesting show to watch.
I wonder how long it's going to be before the U.S. becomes sympathetic and starts sending billions of $ to aid Putin or Prigozhin?
Vern Humphrey
06-26-2023, 09:25
I wonder how long it's going to be before the U.S. becomes sympathetic and starts sending billions of $ to aid Putin or Prigozhin?
Let's hope never -- but with the current Idiot-in-Chief, you can never tell.
5thDragoons
06-26-2023, 10:25
Putler pretty much needs to save face and show former SSRs like Kazakhstan - who' getting a bit cheeky - who's boss after flying away when Wagner was speeding to Moscow. But to do that, he needs to recall units and equipment from Ukraine. There's just no telling how this mess will continue.
As far as Prigozhin - he has to realize his days are numbered. In fact, I'm amazed he's still alive right now. Minsk is crawling with FSB operatives who would be glad to whack him.
Stay tuned for more exciting updates! SW
Now the Huff Post is using my description of "fishy" so I'm obviously wrong or need to start using a different term. Oh the shame of it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/james-clapper-says-kremlins-deal-134352141.html
Glad all of this is happening in someone else's back yard. We have enough going on here and certain ones are thrilled this is taking the heat/interest off of them for the time being.
Vern Humphrey
06-26-2023, 02:56
Now the Huff Post is using my description of "fishy" so I'm obviously wrong or need to start using a different term. Oh the shame of it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/james-clapper-says-kremlins-deal-134352141.html
Glad all of this is happening in someone else's back yard. We have enough going on here and certain ones are thrilled this is taking the heat/interest off of them for the time being.
Well, if Little Jimmy Crapper thinks it's "fishy" there may be something strange going on.:icon_scratch:
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