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I feel most of us here are "old school" like myself and wouldn't touch Bitcoin with a 10' pole. However, it hasn't crashed yet and has gone from $0 to over $65,000. The whole concept to me always seemed to be a scam of sorts like a ponzi or pyramid scheme but for some it was a good "get rich quick".
Speaking for myself, I clearly missed the boat on this.
Over the years there were plenty of buying opportunities but is it at it's height now? You can buy fractions of a coin so as the price increased you didn't have to fork over the entire price of a coin. As late as 5 years ago the coin was worth $426 more or less. For every $1 purchased it would have equalled $0.0023 BTC. Each $1 spent would be worth over $140 today.
Few places take Bitcoin as payment but that is increasing.
Experience's or thoughts on this ???
https://bytwork.com/en/articles/btc-chart-history
I also believe we have missed the boat on investing in bitcoin. Its volatility is staggering. It is selling right now at around $66k. A year ago, it was $11k. Buy it if you dare with money that you are willing to lose because it can move up or down in huge leaps.
Look at the Max. Chart in the link below.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD?p=BTC-USD&.tsrc=fin-srch
I put $40k in when it was in that range -
The problem I had was "I don't understand it" - thinking I'm just old and set in my investing ways... then I got thinking about it.... Ok, I have dollars that only have perceived value - there is no backing other than the full faith of the US Govt (yeah like that is worth anything).... they are printing more dollars diluting the value - so what is a dollar REALLY worth - nothing.
Ok - so there is bitcoin - it is nothing but a perceived value (kinda like the dollar) - with no asset backing what-so-ever (kinda like the dollar) - so why not throw a little into it... at least it isn't being diluted.
Then I thought about stocks in the stock market - ok, so say I own 500 shares of Delta Airlines - does that "Truly" make me an owner in the assets of the company. In a liquidation, do you think I would see any money? So even with the stock market, do I really own anything?
Now to really make you think ---- as I told my wife - "I am investing something that is worthless, into something that is worthless, in the hopes of making more worthless stuff"
With bitcoin I have been down $13,000 one day and even three days later - - - so it swings BIG TIME - - - but so far, I'm up - - - and hoping it keeps flying...
Steve
Thanks dobek. I had many of those same thoughts throughout the years about our dollar being based upon nothing and losing value while the Bitcoin was gaining in value. Every time I get somewhat interested in Bitcoin and read the current value I can only think that's as high as it's going to go and of course I'm always wrong on this.
$40K was quite a risk and an investment---glad it has worked out for you.
I don't remember what the value was when it went public and the sites I trade with (Scottrade and now Ameritrade) don't let you buy percentages of the coins so I didn't. Seems like prior to that you had to send your money off to some outfit (unknown to me) that handled the Bitcoin so I saw that as a risk as well.
I would have been more of a conservative invester of $1K to $10K assuming I would never see the $ again. Wish now, of course, that I had done something no matter how small.
Johnny P
10-20-2021, 05:06
What was the outcome of the guy that forgot his password to access his bitcoin account. Last I heard of it he had one more chance, and then "poof" if he didn't get it right.
Bitcoin reminds me of Tulip Mania. Neither had any intrinsic value except that Tulips were pretty.
Tulip Mania collapsed, so too will Bitcoin in my opinion. How long the rollercoaster ride goes on
is impossible to tell - until the faith runs out ? As for me, I'll stick to gold and silver (they're useful in
Industry)
Does a Bitcoin or the others actually exist or is it purely computer ?
Bitcoin reminds me of Tulip Mania. Neither had any intrinsic value except that Tulips were pretty.
Tulip Mania collapsed, so too will Bitcoin in my opinion. How long the rollercoaster ride goes on
is impossible to tell - until the faith runs out ? As for me, I'll stick to gold and silver (they're useful in
Industry)
Does a Bitcoin or the others actually exist or is it purely computer ?
Bitcoin doesn't exist anywhere except a computer algorithm - my problem with gold / silver (and I own both - plus some platinum) is you buy from a dealer who marks up a minimum of 20% on spot price. if you sell to a dealer, he is gonna low ball by 20% off of spot - - so I have to make 20% to break even ---- IF ----- i sell to a non-dealer and need to make 40% to break even if both transactions are via a dealer. 40% is a lot to overcome.
Now the upside to gold / silver - when the economy collapses completely - you have something to barter with ---- although in that situation ammo would probably be a better bargaining unit.
Loaf of bread is 1 gold coin, or a box of 9mm
Steve
Johnny P
10-22-2021, 07:37
Gold and silver should have been bought 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Don't wait until today to buy for upcoming Sliden Biden collapse. You can carry 21 ounces of gold or 4 boxes of .22 LR for what one box of 9mm weighs if you have to move quick.
In can not understand that if times get that bad that a person would trade guns or ammo for other goods, the gun or ammo will be used against you sooner or later.
kurt
You can't eat gold & silver. If the economy collapses you're better off sitting on whiskey and salt as goods for bartering. Or ammo!
Also neither gold or Bitcoin pay dividends or create wealth. The idea with both is that value goes up because of supply/diamond imbalance.
Gold is hard to create, hard to destroy, so it took on this role as a currency metal. Ditto for silver. Bitcoin is hard to create, easy to destroy. That fragility makes me think it is good for some economic conditions, bad for others.
One should compare gold v. the S&P 500 with dividend reinvestment. Gold just sits there. There is no economic activity to it besides being bought/sold. With a company one is getting a piece of additional economic action
In can not understand that if times get that bad that a person would trade guns or ammo for other goods, the gun or ammo will be used against you sooner or later.
kurt
depends,
I know of an appliance repair guy that has a helluva collection of old firearms,
he is probably retired now, but told me once he would go to a person's house that needed something fixed, or replaced, and would end up with a shotgun or rifle as a partial or complete payment,
his business was out in the sticks, no big town for 90 minutes or so, and to some old folks, that might as well be like going to the moon
Johnny P
10-23-2021, 10:02
Have to disagree on gold does not pay dividends or create wealth. If it didn't it would still be $32 an ounce. I have several old stock certificates for railroads and companies that no longer exist, and the only value of the stock is how much heat it would put out if used to build a fire. We are not talking investments, but everything coming to a grinding halt at which times stocks have zero value. Try to barter for an essential with a stock certificate.
It's a store of value. Under FDR it's value was pegged at $34 oz (even if you couldn't buy it, legally)
If you 'd held on to that $34, what would it buy today ?
Today that troy oz of gold you bought back then is worth what $1,700 or so ?
Have to disagree on gold does not pay dividends or create wealth. If it didn't it would still be $32 an ounce. I have several old stock certificates for railroads and companies that no longer exist, and the only value of the stock is how much heat it would put out if used to build a fire. We are not talking investments, but everything coming to a grinding halt at which times stocks have zero value. Try to barter for an essential with a stock certificate.
There's no compounding of gold. You own 20 oz. of gold, no matter how long, it's still 20 oz.
By contrast you own 100 shares in a dividend paying company, and reinvest those dividends in more shares of that company, the you own more than 100 shares. If it's a good company the share price may also go up too. There are taxes on the dividends, but they are taxed at a lower rate than income.
Dividends in this case are a slice of operating profits passed to shareholders. Gold doesn't operate. It sits there. Hard to create, hard to destroy.
https://www.longtermtrends.net/stocks-vs-gold-comparison/
Two charts there. One showing just the price comparison between metals and the S&P 500 and the other showing the Total Return Index (dividends reinvested).
Johnny P
10-25-2021, 09:56
There's no compounding of gold. You own 20 oz. of gold, no matter how long, it's still 20 oz.
By contrast you own 100 shares in a dividend paying company, and reinvest those dividends in more shares of that company, the you own more than 100 shares. If it's a good company the share price may also go up too. There are taxes on the dividends, but they are taxed at a lower rate than income.
Dividends in this case are a slice of operating profits passed to shareholders. Gold doesn't operate. It sits there. Hard to create, hard to destroy.
Go back and read again. Gold was in such demand that Roosevelt had to do something to save our monetary system. He did this by regulating gold, and the only way to do this was to limit the amount of gold a person could legally hold. If gold did nothing it would still be at the 1934 price. All stocks don't pay dividends, and have the possibility of being worth nothing. In the history of our country gold or silver has never had zero value, but plenty of stocks have.
FDR made it illegal to own Gold, plus Silver was called in in 64. Coinage is now a worthless nickel and copper sandwich.
Stocks and Bonds are paper transactions or were. Now Computer entries I guess. Great as long as they go up like
they did in 29. Today reminds me of 29 with it's wild speculation between the very wealthy.
I'm a Dinosaur I know but I like things to be in my Safe.
When you start hearing about it all the time, it's time for the crash.
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