View Full Version : Gold as a long term investment
Been thinking about buying some 1 oz gold American coins as a long term inter generational investment to pass on to the kids or grand kids. I'm no expert on this investing stuff but do know that precious metals are a part of a well balanced portfolio. I don't do any stocks or bonds all I do is save or buy guns. I guess I'm concerned about this government coming after private property to so other than what I live in I don't buy. I keep trying to talk myself into a piece of hunting property but I'm resisting. Gold good? or bad? I like gold, it's purdy. :evil6:
Don't forget silver too.
Suppose chit hits the fan and our currency becomes worthless. Merchants will only take precious metals. You go to the store to buy a loaf of bread and let's say that because of the climate of the economy that loaf of bread is $20. How you going to pay with gold? With silver you can hand them an old worn out Washington quarter (or such) and be on your way.
Just my thoughts though. If you do invest in silver just buy worn coins that have no collector value. You'll be wanting them for the melt value only.
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/coin-melt-values.aspx
Gold and silver are high now so it's not a good time for speculators. For you, it would be quite ok as a long term investment, especially a hedge against inflation and the kids and grand kids will definitely appreciate it. Allen is right about not forgetting about silver. Bullion silver coins, that is old US silver currency coins (dimes, quarters, ect) that are common dates and mint marks and worn enough they have lost their numismatic value are a good bet. The great thing about the coins is they are in actual US currency, are self proving with known silver content, and are almost never counterfeited.
https://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html
Gold has always been a safe haven against inflation. Study this graph carefully. Inflation was low during the final two years of the Obama administration because he lost both houses of Congress and for nearly all of the Trump administration. Look what happened to the price of gold in 2020 and beyond. If you buy into the gold market now and the democrats lose the White House and both houses of Congress, the price could fall back to the pre-Biden level.
For SHTF scenario;
Trouble with gold is that paying for a loaf of bread with even a five peso coin will need change to be made.
Try getting change from a fifty peso.
For everyday purchases silver is best, or barter with ammo or the guy next door's Wife.
The 11:00 o'clock test. When you start seeing the ads on t.v. for gold,houses,frying pans after 11:00 p.m. don't do it. It's too late. Everyone who gets killed in some bubble market is a Johnny-come-lately. So, does it pass the 11:00 test? A real question. Are we in for some "interesting times"? I think so. QE. Know what that is? Quantitative Easing. It's complicated, but it's printing money. Is my house really worth $xxxxxx? Right now it might be. Maybe not next year, or maybe it will be but cars will cost $80,000 and a six pack of beer will be $18. Or not.
Want some good(boring) advice? Invest in emerging markets at the bottom of the crash. These are the companies that missed the crash and are starting out fresh. Not as much fun as buying gold.
We are mostly too old to look long term now.
Major Tom
09-08-2021, 09:19
The 'gold' you buy online now is inflated prices for the company to profit from. You'll never get $ for $! When the shtf, get as far away from populous cities as possible!
I think the larger coin collector dealers sell gold and silver bullion plus commemorative coins that emphasize on the weight content instead of street value.
Still, expect to pay a little over current melt value as these people have to make money.
About 2 years ago I bought a few silver U.S. coins from sellers on ebay to add to my small stash. Melt value at the time was just over $16 or $18oz. I paid just a little over that to cover the "free shipping" and ebay fees, etc. Some sellers were selling right at melt value obviously because they had old stock that they paid less for and held.
Today I think the value is around < $25oz. It's like gold (and real estate) going up and down but it will always have value and a lot more value than new issue coins. In that regard it is a gamble and prices could take a dip that last for years but considering how quickly our society is going to chit that doesn't look too likely to me.
Some of you may know better places to buy bullion (Franklin Mint?) and coins. Some dealers sell foreign gold coins due to the gold % content being higher.
For SHTF scenario;
Trouble with gold is that paying for a loaf of bread with even a five peso coin will need change to be made.
Try getting change from a fifty peso.
For everyday purchases silver is best, or barter with ammo or the guy next door's Wife.
Correct on silver. One of the justifications for silver bullion coins is just that. A silver dime is of relatively low silver value, $1.73 today. A silver quarter is $4.35. If it gets really bad people will just start chopping up those gold coins just like they did with the old Spanish 8 Real.
I personally would be extremely selective about the use of ammunition as a barter item. By trading ammunition you are giving the recipient the means to victimize you.
How metals can be used as a hedge against inflation depends on the situation. Is everything just real expensive and you convert the metals to cash as needed or are you in a post apocalypse where you are actually spending metals.
I know people who bought large amounts of silver back in the '80s and early '90s when it was $5.00 an ounce who could do quite well converting it to cash as needed at the current $25.00 an ounce, even minus the 5%-10% "handling charge" to do a commercial transaction.
mike9905
09-08-2021, 11:16
Regarding gold as an investment: keep in mind that when you sell there is a 28% tax on the capital gain. All dealers in gold are required to report purchases in excess of (I think) $500. Something to think about.
Johnny P
09-09-2021, 10:44
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/capital-gains-tax-rates
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/capital-gains-tax-rates
I wonder how much the 'gubmint actually collects on sales of chattel items like collectables. I bet it is a tiny fraction of actual sales.
Of course it's 100% if you're the one who gets caught.
jon_norstog
09-09-2021, 01:19
One of my old GFs (from S. Idaho!) told me she wouldn't bother with gold, she'd store up potatoes. Better yet have a piece of ground where you can grow potatoes and trade them.
In the 2008 crash I bought gold and Swiss francs. The gold didn't do much good, I lost money in fact, but the Swiss, it was a fund and it is till running strong.
But I ma teaching my grandchildren how to garden and how to preserve food, I took them clamming a few seasons before the plague shut everything down, their dad haS got them fishing and I think we'll teach them how to hunt when they get older.
We are set up pretty good here but I think Ima put in a cistern and start harvesting rainwater, also develop some water and an Indian garden on our North Dakota place.
jn
There's never a shortage of gold or silver, but other items often vanish from shelves,
notably food. Note how quickly food vanishes when people panic. They don't rush out
to buy gold or silver but food guns and ammo. Precious metals preserve your wealth.
Food and firepower preserve your life,
Just a question of priorities. Nice to have a goodly supply of both which I'm sure
all here have.
There's never a shortage of gold or silver, but other items often vanish from shelves,
notably food. Note how quickly food vanishes when people panic. They don't rush out
to buy gold or silver but food guns and ammo. Precious metals preserve your wealth.
Food and firepower preserve your life,
Just a question of priorities. Nice to have a goodly supply of both which I'm sure
all here have.
Yep, always need to have a stash of food on hand and rotate it but if it disappears off the shelf then you only have a limited window before yours is consumed or goes bad at home and you can only store so much. You don't want to live 6 months on macaroni and rice. Canned goods may last a year or so. Having a garden would be important but how many these days have enough land to have a sizeable spread?
Some people feel if they have guns they can obtain what others have and thus don't need to worry. Just one more reason that everyone needs to be armed.
Stock market? During times like this most all stocks will be zero.
Land: On the long haul good investment if it can be bought at the right time for the right price but we have no guarntee's of being able to keep what is ours. The gov't on any level can offer you pennies on the dollar for it if they decide they want it. If refused they can and do take it for nothing. Then there is property tax which can be raised to the point where you have to give up your land. During times of SHTF people won't be buying land unless they can get it super cheap.
Gold bullion and coins: often faked. You may have to go to lengthly lengths (?) to prove it is real.
Silver coins, as mentioned before, hardly ever if ever faked and even then it wouldn't be the common or worn coins. Easy to obtain and recognized by every one.
Don't forget silver too.
Suppose chit hits the fan and our currency becomes worthless. Merchants will only take precious metals. You go to the store to buy a loaf of bread and let's say that because of the climate of the economy that loaf of bread is $20. How you going to pay with gold? With silver you can hand them an old worn out Washington quarter (or such) and be on your way.
Just my thoughts though. If you do invest in silver just buy worn coins that have no collector value. You'll be wanting them for the melt value only.
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/coin-melt-values.aspx
Silver coin=constitutional currency. Real money just like any real gold or copper coins U.S. minted. Today's fiat currency is not only sorta worthless but in my opinion not even legal. Gold coin could be used for larger purchases silver and copper coin for smaller stuff. For instance 20 double eagles for that 10 acres of land in a situation.
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Depends on what the guy next doors wife looks like.
Whats a Indian garden? the 3 sisters? Having lived in southern Idaho you know water is a big deal it's a desert. Moving to a area that has more water would be good unless it's to much water ask Allen about that one. Garden without water ain't working garden with to much water ain't working. I garden here and do well enough for long enough and much better here than in the part of MT I used to live in to many hail storms and way to short a season. But great hunting and fishing, plenty of fire wood to with the bad forest management thats been going on for the last 50 years or so, lotsa dead trees to burn in the stove.
I don't know but the local coin dealers said there was a heck of a shortage of coins and many are still short. One dealer told me that the buy/sell premium was way off it's normal because of a shortage of product. I have been a coin collector most of my life and I do have a collection except for a quantity of gold. Until recent the only gold coin I had ever bought was back when it was 800 or so for a 1 ounce California Grizzly bear coin. Since that I never messed with the stuff and now have some urge to collect some U.S. gold coins in enough quantity to help in the future of the oldest daughter and her kids or maybe if they have some their kids. I don't sell coins and not a lot of other stuff either. I don't sell gifts either I don't feel it's right although I have re-gifted a few things over the years. Almost all the coins I have collected came out of the wild or were bought from a reputable dealer, I don't want "humped" stuff. We already garden and can and I have plenty of ammo, components guns and parts. And yes TP.
Even during the depression people made money but they had money, cash money and most of it was coin. Great grand parents, grand parents and mom as well as other members of my family taught me some very strict lessons. First one was "don't trust banks, 2 was don't trust banks and the next was don't trust the government they are all crooks. Silver and gold always had value and would buy things when paper wouldn't. I was told that a friend of my grand fathers bought a house for 50 gold double eagles in the depression, not a bad deal huh. A home paid for for 50 gold coins is a place to live.
Everything is at inflated prices today. Getting away from the large (500,000 and larger) cities is a good idea you have to weigh these things out and size isn't always the only measure to use. As far as getting dollar for dollar for it I'm of the mind that getting what you want or need is far more important.
Yes, maybe but there is also supposed to be a report of a certain amount of gold or silver sold by a dealer. I simply don't know of any that do that unless it's a heck of a lot of money changing hands 10,000.00 and over. I don't believe it is a set amount but based on what someone thinks is happening, sort of like in the banks.If they suspect something it can be a small amount of cash, I don't bank at a bank and haven't for years. Credit unions are probably under some of the same rules as banks but I do know they are not under all of the same rules. How many people do you know that reported on themselves on the amount they sold stuff for? I personally don't know of any even though it was required to and was considered income to a state or the feds. Dis I tell ya I don't trust banks LOL, and I really don't.
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Thanks for all the great ideas and info everyone. Maybe buy 10-20 or even 30 1 oz gold American coins to put away to pass on when I pass on. This was never intended to be a SHTF thing but it kind of went there to so hey it's all good.
Johnny P
09-10-2021, 06:49
Buy them because you like them.
https://i.postimg.cc/DfQVPJGp/StG20.jpg
Liberty quarters were worn out when I was a kid(1957) but I always liked them. But I don't have that collector$ kind of gene. I did pick up coke bottles and turned them in for a whole .10 cents. Of course all those old folks who did collect silver coins never got to collect on them because the neighbor kids or their kids knew about them and bought candy with them.
Liberty quarters were worn out when I was a kid(1957) but I always liked them. But I don't have that collector$ kind of gene. I did pick up coke bottles and turned them in for a whole .10 cents. Of course all those old folks who did collect silver coins never got to collect on them because the neighbor kids or their kids knew about them and bought candy with them.
+1
The Liberty quarter was not a good design (structurally). The dates and fine detail wore off quickly. I too like them with the big eagle on the back but never saw a nice one in circulation.
If the old folks had known what was going to happen sooner after 1964 they would have hoarded more silver for the future generation like Bud is thinking of doing now with gold. What I remember about the 50's was we were in a recession and money was tight. Back then there was no unemployment compensation to fall back on that I know of and no welfare so people had to work and were constantly afraid of losing their jobs. Still, I feel most everyone has at least a few pre-1965 coins in their closets.
https://americanfoundingprinciples.com/constitutional-currency/
This is money as defined by the Constitution and this is the coin I have referred to. HTH
https://americanfoundingprinciples.com/constitutional-currency/
This is money as defined by the Constitution and this is the coin I have referred to. HTH
My only reservation about using gold for large purchases or for saving is that now days you will need documentation that your coins or bar bullion are real. You would want proof too and not just from a local coin dealer who could be mistaken himself.
I think when it comes to high dollar items like this that can easily be faked most assume it is.
Yup. If you want to go back to the 1880's then you need to be up on the eighteen eighties.
The old cash registers had a black marble shelf which was for testing gold and silver.
Silver had a distinctive ringing sound. Not sure how they tested gold
In the Robin Hood movie the Sheriff tested it with his teeth.
The old cash registers had a black marble shelf which was for testing gold and silver.
Silver had a distinctive ringing sound. Not sure how they tested gold
In the Robin Hood movie the Sheriff tested it with his teeth.
From what I see on Pawn Stars an acid test is done on gold. The problem with that is a hole has to be drilled to make sure the item isn't merely plated. Not everyone would be in favor of that or could do it. The same is done with silver but not needed with recognized worn coins.
Johnny P
09-10-2021, 12:50
A simple abrasive stone and acid are the easiest test for gold plated. Every pawn shop uses it, and take about 30 seconds for results.
The Russians became famous for faking gold coins, but they were making small denomination coins using real gold. The collector value of the coins far exceeded the actual gold content.
Vern Humphrey
09-11-2021, 03:18
My oldest grand daughter just turned 18 and I turned her UTMA (Uniform Transfer to Minors Account) over to her. I established this account when she was born and have steadily dribbled money into it.
My son-in-law, who is a certified genius, went through his daughter's portfolio and told me, "You beat the indexes for 10 years running! If you were a professional financial adviser, you would be in the top 1%!"
My advice is go with mutual funds. Invest steadily, a little each month. If you want to know where to invest, take a good look at Fidelity Select Biotechnology Portfolio (FBIOX). Over the last 10 years, this fund has averaged 21.21%. In other words, your money would have doubled every 3 1/2 years.
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