Drawing a Gun

[Art]

These two videos came to mind a while back so I thought I'd post them together. The first is from the TV series "Justified." The second is the Ft Worth church shooting. In the Ft Worth situation the first man to confront the assailant does not get a clean draw this removed any chance he might have had to survive. The fellow who ends the fight draws clean and very quickly. Something to think about (and practice.)

The only place I could find an unedited version of the shooting right now is from the Ft Worth (Foat Wuth if you're from there) Star Telegram.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpNK5uZSfto

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article238811603.html

[holdover]

The winner is usually the first to shoot, the bad guy shot the first church goer simply because he was ready to shoot with the church goer drawing, the element of surprise was on his side, the guy who ended this was good at all he did, attention , draw, aim etc, he also had the luck of the killer being focused on the church goer who was drawing his weapon. If it was the other way around with the two good guys switched it might of turned out differently. It is obvious the guy who shot the killer had practiced his gun control, I believe they said he was a volunteer deputy. Think what would of happened in a typical church that isn't prepared. I am curious, does anyone know how many were armed in that church?

[Art]

From the time the bad guy presents his shotgun until he shoots his first victim is about four seconds. When I carried a gun for a living the first stage of qualification was at six feet. We were required to draw and fire two shots in three seconds into a silhouette target center mass from under a jacket with service ammunition. This is almost exactly the situation the first good guy was in. Usually everybody got off the two shots with time to spare. When the fellow who eliminated the threat drew he did if from concealment in time shading a second. He was also a deadly shot. This is the result of intensive training.

The first victim was very brave, he was also painfully slow. He seemed to have real trouble clearing his weapon. This was surely because he had trouble accessing it, it hung in his clothes or both.

Most people never practice their draw. A lot can go wrong but its more likely to go south to if you don't practice early and often. Most CCL holders are good guy 1 in this situation and not good guy 2. They simply don't have enough repetitions to get off a smooth draw in practice, much less under pressure.

[lyman]

The winner is usually the first to shoot, the bad guy shot the first church goer simply because he was ready to shoot with the church goer drawing, the element of surprise was on his side, the guy who ended this was good at all he did, attention , draw, aim etc, he also had the luck of the killer being focused on the church goer who was drawing his weapon. If it was the other way around with the two good guys switched it might of turned out differently. It is obvious the guy who shot the killer had practiced his gun control, I believe they said he was a volunteer deputy. Think what would of happened in a typical church that isn't prepared. I am curious, does anyone know how many were armed in that church?

I have no idea, but I can tell you that here in VA, many churches have armed security, and not the hired mall cop type,

I have sold many a firearm to guys that were part of the official, or unofficial Church security teams,

and they practice

[Gun Smoke]

Drawing a gun under the bitea$$ - haira$$ administration.

[lyman]

Drawing a gun under the bitea$$ - haira$$ administration.

that would be hate speech,

[Gun Smoke]

that would be hate speech,

Guilty as charged.

It is also true speech.

[lyman]

Guilty as charged.

It is also true speech.


and not inclusive or accepting diversity,

send togor your clothing size so he can get your gulag uniform ready

[barretcreek]

Drawing a gun under the bitea$$ - haira$$ administration.

You are expelled from skewl.

Thank you, Art.

[Gun Smoke]

and not inclusive or accepting diversity,

send togor your clothing size so he can get your gulag uniform ready

You're right. In the case of the liberal term of diversity which has led to PC, hiring quota's and affirmative action I do NOT support diversity.

In the case of support or equal hearsay of what the left wing clowns spew here on this forum in an attempt to run everyone off I do NOT support diversity.

As far as diversity to those in office who want to destroy America, our freedoms and rights, I do NOT support diversity.

If I go any further you will claim this belongs in the political forum but it all relates directly to guns and this IS a gun forum.

Diversity of anti-gun rights posters that get the red carpet here are destroying this forum. It was recently brought up in another thread but you can't seem to comprehend constructive criticism at all. Your viewpoints have always been "don't dare speak out against the trolls who are trying to undermine the forum". Now you've added "don't dare speak out against the left wing".

[lyman]

You're right. In the case of the liberal term of diversity which has led to PC, hiring quota's and affirmative action I do NOT support diversity.

In the case of support or equal hearsay of what the left wing clowns spew here on this forum in an attempt to run everyone off I do NOT support diversity.

As far as diversity to those in office who want to destroy America, our freedoms and rights, I do NOT support diversity.

If I go any further you will claim this belongs in the political forum but it all relates directly to guns and this IS a gun forum.

Diversity of anti-gun rights posters that get the red carpet here are destroying this forum. It was recently brought up in another thread but you can't seem to comprehend constructive criticism at all. Your viewpoints have always been "don't dare speak out against the trolls who are trying to undermine the forum". Now you've added "don't dare speak out against the left wing".

now now, no need to get some here all triggered, (oops, bad gun term)

feelings will be hurt and bruised,

you may get one of the special cells in togor's gulag

[Gun Smoke]

I assume you are one of the "3" on each side that you mentioned in a different thread.

Question is: which side are you on?

[togor]

Good stuff, Art. Thanks for posting. If you're going to carry--commit to practicing. Excellent advice.

[Art]

I put a watch on it. From the time the bad guy produced the shotgun until he fired his first round was 3.61 seconds. The fellow who put him down from the time he started his drawing motion until he fired the head shot that stopped the threat was 1.86 seconds. All of that is hand timed of course. Drawing and firing in under two seconds and delivering a head shot to an assailant between 8 and 10 yards away under real stress is fantastic shooting, but the guy is an instructor who teaches self defense shooting.

Why shotgun boy was so slow I don't know, maybe he forgot to take his safety off....it happens. Anyway I put on my carry set up played the video and was able to draw cleanly from concealment and get two off (dry firing of course) before shotgun guy got off a shot.

I figure if you're faced with a guy pulling a 12 guage pump on you at a distance of 6-7 feet you're probably going to be shaking hands with St Peter anyhow but if the first person to engage hadn't had a draw malfunction he had time to stop the treat himself though there was an excellent chance he would have been killed or very seriously wounded one way or the other.

In the immortal words of Raylan Givens, "it takes practice to draw clean."

[lyman]

I assume you are one of the "3" on each side that you mentioned in a different thread.

Question is: which side are you on?

the correct side, and not one of the 3,

[barretcreek]

Back to the OP. Art, I carry in the forest for bears,lions and especially Bullwinkle. Shoot the Steel Challenge a few times a year, and have been looking at buying a shot timer just for the reasons you mention. Go out to the range if it is clear and time myself for multiple HITS up close and personal. Always figured a couple of hard cast FN from a J-frame into Yogi's mouth are more effective than non-shots from the SBH at home in the safe.

[lyman]

Back to the OP. Art, I carry in the forest for bears,lions and especially Bullwinkle. Shoot the Steel Challenge a few times a year, and have been looking at buying a shot timer just for the reasons you mention. Go out to the range if it is clear and time myself for multiple HITS up close and personal. Always figured a couple of hard cast FN from a J-frame into Yogi's mouth are more effective than non-shots from the SBH at home in the safe.

no bull winkles here, and supposedly no mtn lions,

however a friend that hunts another friends property up in the Blue Ridge just south of Charlottesville never carried a handgun in the woods,

till his game camera caught 3 cubs climbing around his stand,

normally not a big deal, but mama bear (black bears) have been known to not appreciate humans around the younguns,,, so he now carries a 357 when hunting

[togor]

no bull winkles here, and supposedly no mtn lions,

however a friend that hunts another friends property up in the Blue Ridge just south of Charlottesville never carried a handgun in the woods,

till his game camera caught 3 cubs climbing around his stand,

normally not a big deal, but mama bear (black bears) have been known to not appreciate humans around the younguns,,, so he now carries a 357 when hunting

You hunt hogs?

[lyman]

You hunt hogs?

none in this area