View Full Version : Weird peep sight on M1873
I inherited this rifle from my father and know little about its history other than his father used it for hunting deer back probably in the 1920s-1940s. Can you tell me something about the rear peep sight on the stock? Searching around, I have not seen anything like it. It looks like it's from the period and may be an add-on -- it's attached at the tang screw and with another wood screw as well.
I'd like to shoot this rifle with some of the modern cartridges my Dad bought and shot through it a few decades ago. I'm in the middle of taking it completely apart and cleaning and lubing it, using the instructions on the trapdoor collector site (https://www.trapdoorcollector.com/) about disassembly and light cleaning.
Also would like to find any info on original owner or other info using the serial number.
Thank you,
Bryan
Dick Hosmer
09-03-2020, 08:09
The rear peep sight is a Lyman or a Marbles. Should be marked - in any event, they were extremely similar, Dates from the 1890s but could easily have been installed new in the 20s or 30s. Those sights were made for just about any gun ever made, and over a LONG period of time. I do not know if there was a trapdoor-specific version or not, but virtually any model could have been made to fit. It looks like yours MIGHT have been thinned a bit at the front of the base.
As to the rifle's serial number, I checked my SRS serial number books, and did not find anything for 268400, actually nothing even close. The rear sight appears to be the original service one, correct for the period and fastened with slotless screws.
The rear peep sight is a Lyman or a Marbles. Should be marked - in any event, they were extremely similar, Dates from the 1890s but could easily have been installed new in the 20s or 30s. Those sights were made for just about any gun ever made, and over a LONG period of time. I do not know if there was a trapdoor-specific version or not, but virtually any model could have been made to fit. It looks like yours MIGHT have been thinned a bit at the front of the base.
As to the rifle's serial number, I checked my SRS serial number books, and did not find anything for 268400, actually nothing even close. The rear sight appears to be the original service one, correct for the period and fastened with slotless screws.
Thank you, Dick! I'll look closer at the peep sight and see if I can find any maker marks. What was the purpose of such an add-on -- just to give a third point of line for higher accuracy?
Check out this pic of the front sight -- apparently the original one was lost and someone cut a penny in half and soldered it into the slot! So there goes the originality and value of the rifle... but I would still like to shoot it and even hunt deer again with it if I can sight it in. Not sure if the penny sight will cause issues or not - would love to non-destructively mount a scope on it somehow.
This is the peep site that was mounted on my 1891 rod bayonet. The front sight blade seems to be from a M1903 Springfield. I have replaced that one with the proper sight blade but the peep sight remains. Whoever installed it screwed it to the stock so now it is a permanent part of the rifle. I remember there was a guy not too long ago, maybe on here that was selling scope mounts that utilized the rear sight mounting screws.
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I cleaned up the peep sight last night and found that it's a Lyman sight. The patent date on it is 1905, so it was definitely not original to the rifle. You are right that there is a wood screw that goes into the stock, so it will remain on the rifle now. I'd like to know how to use the sight though -- it's pretty cool. It has two different size aperatures, can lock into different positions forward and back, is adjustable up and down with markings on the shaft.
OK, I did some more research and found that the sight I have on my Springfield is marked with an SA underneath the base to show that it was to be used for the Savage 1895, 1899 and most earlier 99s. So this peep sight is probably the Lyman model No. 1 or 2... I am not sure yet what the difference is. It was obviously modified to fit on this Springfield M1873 - the bottom near the tang screw was ground down and I'm not sure if the wood screw through the middle was original, probably not.
This is the closest thing I could find on this peep site so far:
https://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?103-Vintage-Savage-Iron-and-Peep-Sights
https://oldarmsofidaho.com/product/lyman-1a-sa-tang-peep-sight-savage-model-99/
Other than the different screw head, this one looks exactly like mine:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-lyman-tang-peep-sight-99-163603607
And this one too:
https://ronpetersonantiques.com/lyman-savage-tang-sight/
Now that you mention the 99 savage that is the one on my 99 takedown in 30 30
These were used on trapdoor sporters years ago.
The originals are difficult to find but there is a modern reproduction being manufactured48140
You may find that that "penny" front sight will shoot reasonably on at 100 yds.
Trapdoor rifles battle sights were set at 2-300 yds and with the rainbow trajectory of the 45/70 shoot notoriously high at 100.
I had to change one of mine back to an original blade as I couldn't mount a socket bayonet over the taller sight.
OK, thank you! Once I get some ammo for it and get it checked by a gunsmith for safety to shoot, I'll try out the penny sight at 100 yds or so.
I showed the rifle to a couple hunting buddies last night and they had never seen anything like it. They were pretty concerned that it should be checked by a gunsmith before shooting. Also, one of them said the rear peep sight was illegal in NY to hunt with... I'm not sure why.
Dick Hosmer
09-07-2020, 09:29
That's a new one on me, but then I don't live in NY.
I DO, however, live in one of the few OTHER states that are total assholes about guns - the DPRK!
That's a new one on me, but then I don't live in NY.
I DO, however, live in one of the few OTHER states that are total assholes about guns - the DPRK!
Hey, say hi to Kim Jong for us. lol
Do you know if this rifle might have had a sling at some point? I see the hole for the clip in the trigger guard (no clip there though), but there is nowhere I can see where the other side of the sling would attach. I am not actually sure what type of Springfield this is... it seems to have a carbine stock but a long barrel...? Maybe it's a hybrid rifle? Does it look like that to you?
hickok45 on YouTube has a good video shooting the Trapdoor Springfield carbine. He also shows the original Springfield muzzle loader before they were converted to breech loaders.
That stock has been cut down. At one time it did have provisions for a sling. These rifles will give you an idea of what it once looked like.
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That stock has been cut down. At one time it did have provisions for a sling. These rifles will give you an idea of what it once looked like.
Yes, I've seen the full length stock... you know, I think you are right. This stock is carved differently at the muzzle end than the more rounded end of the carbine stocks. Also, there's no metal ring/loop on the left side and mine has the cleaning rod slot in the bottom. So maybe the original stock was damaged and someone cut it down, who knows. It almost looks similar to Pvt. Terry's marksman's rifle at https://www.trapdoorcollector.com/. I wonder if that one was cut down too.
I'm watching hickok45's carbine video again... very interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdd1Oq-Rgzk
Thanks for all your help!
Dick Hosmer
09-08-2020, 07:51
Sorry say this, but your stock has absolutely been cut off, possibly by someone who wants to lighten it a bit for hunting. It is in no way authentic in its' present form.
The M1881 Marksman's Rifle shown at trapdoor collector is one of nine specially-made such rifles. They are incredibly rare today, and fetch prices in the mid five figures when changing hands.
Sorry say this, but your stock has absolutely been cut off, possibly by someone who wants to lighten it a bit for hunting. It is in no way authentic in its' present form.
The M1881 Marksman's Rifle shown at trapdoor collector is one of nine specially-made such rifles. They are incredibly rare today, and fetch prices in the mid five figures when changing hands.
OK, thanks Dick. I am not concerned with market value anyway...I just want to use it and pass it on to the next generation. :-)
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