Bubba'd Type 99 chambering

[Brad in Idaho]

I realize we don't promote bubba-ing surplus rifles here but a relative brought over a Japanese Type 99 today to ask about value. I didn't know it was "sporterized" until I saw it. Rear sight has been removed and replaced with a Redfield peep sight, bolt turned down (badly), stock forend shortened, handguard and hardware gone and a big recoil pad fitted on the butt. The one slightly interesting thing was that the barrel has evidently been rebored. To what caliber is the question. The mark on the barrel is 300 so I'm wondering 300 WHAT? 300 Savage was an older type conversion that I found. This rifle was butchered in the late 40's/early 50's is my guess. This rifle WAS a war bringback which makes it's butchery sadder still. My relative says it was his fathers (a WWII vet) and the only thing he remembers him saying about it was that it was "bored to 300". How would I find out actual caliber? I'm thinking it would take a gunsmith with proper tools to tell. He wants to sell this rifle. I told him it was worth nothing to a collector because of all the damage to original parts, but that he may find someone who wants it but he really needs to be able to at least tell them what caliber it is. Thoughts on this??

[Clark Howard]

A gunsmith will make a chamber cast to determine what present cartridge it is chambered for. The original barrel diameter is larger than that required bore for any "300". You are right about the collector value, but the rifle may be a good, low-priced hunting rifle.

[fguffey]

and the only thing he remembers him saying about it was that it was "bored to 300".

The 99 TYPE was a 7.7 Japanese, The 7.7 Japanese when converted to inches equaled .30314" meaning? There is no such thing as reducing the inside of the barrel. The barrel could have been replaced with a .300 barrel meaning it would have two diameters, one diameter would be .300" and the larger diameter would be 308'.

And then someone will tell me about the miracle rifle, that was the 6.5MM50 Type 38 rifle. They claim a reloader chambered a type 38 to 30/06. And I always ask how' "HOW DID THEY DO THAT?". I have reamers that are 257 Robert/6.5 Japanese, I can not imagine how they6 got the .30" pilot down the barrel of the 6.5 barrel. And they always tell me to call the NRA, my luck; I would call them and a reloaders would answer. And then there is all that excitement of reducing the diameter of the 308 diameter bullet down to .2559" or 1/4 inch.

We had a shooter take a rifle to the range to zero the scope. He took 308W ammo to the range with a 25/06 rifle. I do not care how the bullet got out, I was not interested in how long the bullet was when it left. The 308W case was one and done, it took the North Texas gun smith over 2 hours to remove the case from the rifle. The case head was hammered so hard it was not possible to read 'Remington 308W'.

F. Guffey

[Fred Pillot]

Your friend needs to look closer at the stamp. Mine is stamped 3006. It was rechambered to 30-06. It shoots great with .311 Sierra 180gr RN. and I can use the magazine with this bullet.

[lyman]

Your friend needs to look closer at the stamp. Mine is stamped 3006. It was rechambered to 30-06. It shoots great with .311 Sierra 180gr RN. and I can use the magazine with this bullet.

I've seen (and sold) a couple that were marked the same way,

left side shank of the barrel,

[musketshooter]

300 Savage. Common conversion caliber.

[Brad in Idaho]

Your friend needs to look closer at the stamp. Mine is stamped 3006. It was rechambered to 30-06. It shoots great with .311 Sierra 180gr RN. and I can use the magazine with this bullet.

From another forum when I made the same post:
"Very common post war caliber to convert to. The neck/shoulder of the case is damn near identical to 7.7 Japanese. The .300 savage is just a shorter case. They removed the barrel turned off a few threads then screwed it back on. Very little chamber work was actually needed. You can easily spot one because the barrel shoulder is way narrower where it screws onto the front of the receiver. I'd say it would be very mild to shoot."

Here is a picture of the marking on the barrel. No mistake, it is 300, note the index marks which indicates to me the procedure described above is likely what was done. The barrel shoulder is as described as well.

46569

[Brad in Idaho]

fguffey - Then I guess he should have said reCHAMBERED to 300 because the barrel is the original Japanese barrel. So they shot a smaller diameter bullet (which wouldn't help accuracy). See picture. Holes are where the original rear sight was mounted. See my reply to Fred Pillot.

46570

[Sunray]

The 7.7 Japanese bullet diameter when converted to inches is .311". Same as the .303 Brit(which is 7.7x56R). Keeping in mind that the bore is .303" while the grooves are .311".
You need to slug the barrel and do a chamber cast.
Cerrosafe is available from Brownell's to do the cast. Comes with instructions(isn't rocket science anyway), as I recall, and 1/4 pound is plenty. Cerrosafe is reusable too. It's a low melt temperature metal that doesn't look like any metal. You do need a melting pot.
Slugging the barrel is done with a cast .30 calibre bullet or a suitably sized lead fishing sinker, a plastic mallet and a micrometer. You hammer the bullet/sinker through the barrel, preferably from the chamber end, and measure it with the micrometer. Easier to do than describe.

[GA-Dave]

The 99 TYPE was a 7.7 Japanese, The 7.7 Japanese when converted to inches equaled .30314" meaning? There is no such thing as reducing the inside of the barrel. The barrel could have been replaced with a .300 barrel meaning it would have two diameters, one diameter would be .300" and the larger diameter would be 308'.

And then someone will tell me about the miracle rifle, that was the 6.5MM50 Type 38 rifle. They claim a reloader chambered a type 38 to 30/06. And I always ask how' "HOW DID THEY DO THAT?". I have reamers that are 257 Robert/6.5 Japanese, I can not imagine how they6 got the .30" pilot down the barrel of the 6.5 barrel. And they always tell me to call the NRA, my luck; I would call them and a reloaders would answer. And then there is all that excitement of reducing the diameter of the 308 diameter bullet down to .2559" or 1/4 inch.

We had a shooter take a rifle to the range to zero the scope. He took 308W ammo to the range with a 25/06 rifle. I do not care how the bullet got out, I was not interested in how long the bullet was when it left. The 308W case was one and done, it took the North Texas gun smith over 2 hours to remove the case from the rifle. The case head was hammered so hard it was not possible to read 'Remington 308W'.

F. Guffey

P.O. Ackley describes shooting 30-06 through a 6.5mm Japanese rifle in his books. Several shots if I remember properly before the bolt locked up.

[fguffey]

P.O. Ackley describes shooting 30-06 through a 6.5mm Japanese rifle in his books. Several shots if I remember properly before the bolt locked up.

And I said "to heck with the rifle give me the cases"; and then I asked how is it possible to chamber a 6.5 rifle to 30/06 with a reamer with .300" pilot? If the reamer had a 6.5 pilot the rifle could be considered a 6.5/06 and I ask; how scary is that? Most reloaders are familiar with the 25/06.

The North Texas shooter chambered a 308 W into a 25/06 and the kibitzers were betting on how long the bullet was when it cleared the barrel. And then there was the case; what happened to the case was beyond most members ability to comprehend.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

The mark on the barrel is 300 so I'm wondering 300 WHAT?

In the big inning there was no Weatherby mag, there was no Winchester mag; there was only the 300 magnmum. I have cases with 300 magnmum head stamps, I have old reloading manuals that list loads for the 300 magnmum. Which one? And then Norma gave reamers to smiths for the 308 Norma Magnmum. I have one, I used it on a P14 with a M1917 barrel.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

And then there are the NRA and Ackley quoters; There is nothing to get excited about when going from 308 to .311. It falls under the catagory of 'forgiveness' for stupidity. Increasing the diameter of the barrel decreases pressure created by 'not knowing'.

And then I could ask "how long was the bullet when it left the barrel?"

F. Guffey

[Conductor]

I remember reading a short article in the American Rifleman back in the late 1950s about a guy who rechambered a 6.5 Arisaka to 30-06. He took it to a gunsmith, complaining that ever since he rechambered it, the recoil was unbearable. The gunsmith explained to him that he couldn't rechamber a 6.5 to 30-06 because the pilot on the reamer wouldn't fit into the barrel throat. The customer said that he had indeed had that problem, but had turned the reamer down on his lathe until it would fit. The article in the Rifleman had photos of a couple of the bullets fired through the gun, and they were squeezed out until they were about an inch and a half or two inches long.
One point of the article was how strong the Arisaka action is. The other point is how stupid some people are. They didn't call the guy stupid. I think the term they used was "lucky".

[JimF]

I remember reading a short article in the American Rifleman back in the late 1950s about a guy who rechambered a 6.5 Arisaka to 30-06. He took it to a gunsmith, complaining that ever since he rechambered it, the recoil was unbearable. The gunsmith explained to him that he couldn't rechamber a 6.5 to 30-06 because the pilot on the reamer wouldn't fit into the barrel throat. The customer said that he had indeed had that problem, but had turned the reamer down on his lathe until it would fit. The article in the Rifleman had photos of a couple of the bullets fired through the gun, and they were squeezed out until they were about an inch and a half or two inches long.
One point of the article was how strong the Arisaka action is. The other point is how stupid some people are. They didn't call the guy stupid. I think the term they used was "lucky".

Yup . . . .

See “The American Rifleman”, May, 1959, page 52.

[fguffey]

I remember reading a short article in the American Rifleman back in the late 1950s about a guy who rechambered a 6.5 Arisaka to 30-06. He took it to a gunsmith, complaining that ever since he rechambered it, the recoil was unbearable.

A shooter purchased 308 W ammo and then took off for the range with a rifle that had a 25/06 chamber.

F. Guffey