View Full Version : 1870 Trapdoor saddle ring carbine
Here is a rare beauty I saw on gun broker this morning in my search for an 1870 rifle. Wonder how long it will last?? If only mt pockets were that deep LOL!!! https://www.gunbroker.com/item/789795771
It's very nice. I'm not completely sure it hasn't been touched up here and there. I would have to have Dick Hosmer go over every inch before I would drop that kind of money on it.
Yes, it is nice. Looks kind of too good. If I had that kind of money to spend I would also have to have it looked at by someone with way more knowledge then myself.
$25,000.00 for something that has no proof or documentation that it actually is what he says it is? Especially as it has '1869' stamped on its side plate. Or how he came by a nearly pristine Carbine.
I think it's a Bubba Special parts rifle.
I believe the date on the lock is 1864, by my eyes anyway which would be correct for an 1870. They were dated 1862 to 1864. There also is no serial # which would also be correct for a carbine as they were not serialized. The 1870 carbine utilized a new stock with one oval ESA cartouch which this on has. The breech block also looks correct as it does not have MODEL 1870 but rather 1870. Just my observations.
My curiosity is more with certain areas of the stock and some of the screw heads. It looks correct, but it could still be a parts rifle. I have seen a few come up before and they were in the $7k-8k range. Like Sunray, I would have to see some documentation or know the collector personally before shelling out that kind of money.
Kragrifle
10-28-2018, 04:06
One sold at Rock Island in 2012 for $17,500. Condition very nice but nowhere near this carbine. Might well be worth 25K!
It might well be legitimate, but there should be many more pictures than what is shown.
Dick Hosmer
10-28-2018, 08:34
I cannot see anything wrong with it from the data provided. One can only marvel at the condition, which is, I believe, the reason for the extraordinarily high price. The trial guns were used hard. The one black and white picture shown on Al Frasca's page seems to be as crisp. Might be the same gun. Many (including mine) have "1865" dated plates, though "1864" (weak strike on this one) would be OK. It is NOT "1869"!
My concerns were the rear sight appears not to be sitting flush on the barrel. The saddle ring gouge in the stock doesn't seem right for a rifle used so little. The screw heads on the lock plate look off. I may be wrong, but it is still a beautiful specimen.
Tom Trevor
10-29-2018, 06:40
A friend who does the big gun shows tells me this one, sure it is based on condition, has been offered by a couple of different dealers in the 12-17 K range with no buyers the past 2-3 years.
Kragrifle
10-30-2018, 05:18
At the worst a few screws and the band spring may have been replaced. There was a time when you could find such parts we used to call “new old stock”. I have seen two other 1870 carbines for sale, one blued and one browned that were in nice condition. The sister trial carbine, the Ward Burton, can also be found in bright and blued finish, though I haven’t seen a browned one.
Dick Hosmer
10-30-2018, 09:11
My concerns were the rear sight appears not to be sitting flush on the barrel. The saddle ring gouge in the stock doesn't seem right for a rifle used so little. The screw heads on the lock plate look off. I may be wrong, but it is still a beautiful specimen.
I do not believe the stock gouge is from the ring. Actually, it is not the ring which wears stocks but rather the edge of the swivel, which creates an arc of rubbing behind (to the rear of) the bar. Sight (and it appears to be the carbine version) looks OK to me. Hammer appears a bit tweaked and does not sit down tight/square. Perhaps it fell at one time? Still WAAY too much money for nearly everyone.
I'm no expert but it looks rather good to me. I would also like to know where it came from just for my own curiosity as I don't have that kind of money for a rifle LOL!!
Way too much for me Dick Hosmer LOL!! Al Frasca just had a nice 1877 stared carbine close to what I could afford but someone snatched it up in a hurry. Just wanted to post this 1870 as I thought it was interesting being in such nice shape. Seemed to be correct and thought people here would enjoy seeing it as I did.
Carlsr
We very much enjoyed seeing it. I would like to have any 1870 Carbine, but can't even dream of spending $25,000 on one.
Dick Hosmer
10-31-2018, 09:48
Mine was $1,500, but it was many years ago.
That would be the one pictured in your book? Lucky you Dick!
Dick Hosmer
11-04-2018, 05:35
Yes, but, unfortunately the front sight is not original - that is most likely why I was able to acquire it at a reasonable price even then.
I believe the seller thought it might have been a cut-down, but it is definitely not as all of the other "special" features are present and correct. The carbines used a modified 1869 Cadet barrel, and the stock cannot be faked from that for a longer arm. Over the years I've considered having the sight restored, but never took the plunge, basically because it would look like someone had diddled with it. The current sight, which simply restores functionality, is sufficiently ugly to preclude anyone thinking it was faked.
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