View Full Version : My last and very finest 1903...
Well, I've decided to sell my last and Very Best 1903 Springfield. It's in original unaltered condition and has all of its original parts as assembled in 1918. Of course the bore is perfect. My guess is that this rifle was possibly used in a training camp instead of going to Europe late in the war. It doesn't seem to have been exposed to the elements or rough handling. Possibly just used on the range at a U.S. training station. Anyway, I think I'm going to sell my last and finest bayonet with this rifle as well as a couple of other nice items that'll go with it. Like untouched and unaltered Garands, I think true untouched, unaltered and un worn 1903 Springfields Made during World War I are extremely scarce. Such rifles would of had to have been squirreled away from notice to have survived a century intact and un marred. Someone brought this rifle into a gun store after a relative died. The rifle will probably be going up on Gunbroker. I'll let you all know when it goes up for sale. Anyway, for your enjoyment here are some of the photos that will be in the add later.
I guess it has already been sold....no photos.
Ohhh! Very nice! Is the bayonet part of the deal or just a prop?
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Smokeeaterpilot
12-17-2017, 08:27
Gorgeous rifle! Love the eagle stamp.
The A on the barrel denotes second class, I don't think that affects value.
Is the bayonet scabbard side stitch? If so that's USMC replacement.
I have documentation on both instances.
Sorry to see you part with it, its a gorgeous rifle.
Andrew
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Gorgeous rifle! Love the eagle stamp.
The A on the barrel denotes second class, I don't think that affects value.
Is the bayonet scabbard side stitch? If so that's USMC replacement.
I have documentation on both instances.
Sorry to see you part with it, its a gorgeous rifle.
Andrew
Andrew, the A on the barrel does not denote second class. Before the war, it meant that the rifle's barrel had passed an inspection to see if it was serviceable. If so, the A was stamped on it. If not, the barrel was replaced. After the war, nobody seems to know what the A actually meant. Was it for the same reason or was there another reason? John Beard and everyone else are scratching their heads over it. It might be that after the war, the old policy of inspecting each rifle's barrel to see if it needed replacing might've still been in effect along with using the A stamp to still denote a good Barrel, but that isn't known for certain yet without official documentation.
Anyway, it sure doesn't mean second class.
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Andrew, the scabbard is not stitched up the side. The bayonet has never been sharpened and the scabbard is mint. It goes well with the rifle I think. Both handled and carried but never or seldom used in the field.
Both are well preserved minty examples of what Springfield Armory was producing in the middle of World War One.
Anyway, I'm arthritic and I ache all over and I don't feel like handling the heavy thing anymore, so I'm going to take the money I get for it and buy something smaller and lighter to play with. I'm getting too worn out.
Very Nice. I think you will have no problem selling!
Kragrifle
12-18-2017, 05:18
Hi Fred. Very nice rifle! Still haven’t figured out how to private message on this new format. Interested in the rifle if for sale.
Mike Raborn
Here is an older photo of this rifle. I kept this rifle as my favorite.
I've never even fired it. Nor have I oiled the stock. The finish is original and old.
When I Finaly freed up the frozen rear trigger guard screw using lighter fluid and a tight fitting Model 1879 combo tool in a pair of vise grips (no corrosion, just frozen for a Century), I gently lifted the action from the stock and found some very thin shavings of wood from the stock inletting that appeared to have been trapped underneath the receiver and against the wood. I believe that the receiver of this rifle hadn't been removed from the stock since the day this rifle was assembled at Springfield Armory around August of 1918.
That's pretty neat.
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And... just for the Memories, here are photos of the other four rifles that were sold first.
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I don't think that I ever fired any of these rifles. Just never got around to it...
The rifle with the polished bolt and the convex hand guard in the large photo below is a Mint 1920 National Match.
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This is one that I almost had some 30-03 ammo made up for by Buffalo Arms, but that never got off the ground...
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There are other photos of other 03's that were sold, but this rifle is my favorite.
The Last of The Mohicans...
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Hi Fred. Very nice rifle! Still haven’t figured out how to private message on this new format. Interested in the rifle if for sale.
Mike Raborn
Mike, I shouldn't and therefore won't give you any idea what I'm wanting for the rifle and other stuff I'm throwing in with it. That'd be sidestepping the Selling forum here.
Thanks very much though Mike.
The rifle will go up on Gunbroker (or Guns International) I guess as most of the other 03's did. I've got to take photos of everything first. I think that it'll be an interesting grouping of stuff that somebody will want to buy. Whenever the heck I try to sell it. All Minty WWI stuff.
I just thought that I'd run it by some of you guys here to let you know about it going on. I've been told before... "Well you never told Me you were selling this!"
I'll let everyone know when it goes up.
Here's some of what I'm combining as a group.
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Very Nice. I think you will have no problem selling!
Thank you! I hope it goes well.
I'll have no reason to keep this scope mount and scope anymore without an 03, so I think I'll sell it all with the rifle.
This Minty 1903 is a neat set up with this scope and Belding and Mull mount that requires no drilling or tapping on the rifle.
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This rifle would be a tack driver in the hands of a Rifleman who knew his business.
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The Belding and Mull scope mount is a newly machined copy of that rare type. That wasn't cheap to have made at the time 30 plus years ago. I forget what I paid for it so long ago. I think $100.00. I can't even remember the name of the mount right at this moment...
This wouldn't be cheap to have a competent fellow make today.
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Smokeeaterpilot
12-19-2017, 07:11
Andrew, the A on the barrel does not denote second class. Before the war, it meant that the rifle's barrel had passed an inspection to see if it was serviceable. If so, the A was stamped on it. If not, the barrel was replaced. After the war, nobody seems to know what the A actually meant. Was it for the same reason or was there another reason? John Beard and everyone else are scratching their heads over it. It might be that after the war, the old policy of inspecting each rifle's barrel to see if it needed replacing might've still been in effect along with using the A stamp to still denote a good Barrel, but that isn't known for certain yet without official documentation.
Anyway, it sure doesn't mean second class.
Sorry so much time had passed on this thread. I missed your reply. And the thread was pushed to the top of the Jouster 1903 group again.
Respectfully disagree on your interpretation on the "A" stamped barrels.
Taken from memorandum Office of Chief of Ordnance dated May 4, 1918. Between Army Inspector of Ordnance at Avis Co. New Haven, Conn. and to the Chief Inspector of Small Arms Weapons Inspection Div. Room H-238, 6th & B Sts. Washington DC
Subject: Marking of Barrels for U.S. Rifle Model 1903 on Contract R-363.
"2. In view of the fact that the letter 'A' is placed over the two letters 'S.A.' in marking barrels at Springfield Armory which are second class, it is possible that some confusion might arise if these barrels to be manufactured by the Avis. Co. were marked with an 'A' alone."
This was quoted from memorandum concerning the Avis barrel contract and whether to issue the company AV or AS on for their barrel stamp. Stamping AVIS would be too many letters and bend the barrel at the muzzle. As a 1903 collector I think it's obvious what the result was, just by seeing so many AV barrels but that's a separate argument.
But the meaning as to the "A" stamped barrels is documented.
Ah, but that refers to an A stamped OVER the S.A. doesn't it?
The A's Under the date and the SA. But heck, I'm no expert on the subject of the A stamps. I sure haven't done any research on the subject. Your information is interesting and informative. I certainly thank you! I learn a little something every day or so here.
Anyway, there's my rifle. I think it's a neat one. Maybe somebody out there will want to own and shoot it. I haven't ever fired it yet. I don't know, maybe I'll just keep it in the gun case and forget about it. Not like it's costing anything to keep it around. It IS a shame that it isn't being fired though. Too bad I'm developing cataracts. I guess the scope would help me.
Anyway, thanks Andrew!
If I do sell the whole group of stuff, I ought to get a few hundred bucks to put forward towards another old toy.
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Ohhh! Very nice! Is the bayonet part of the deal or just a prop?
Oh, it's part of the whole package! I'm just getting rid of some of the stuff around here while I'm still able before my daughter and her socialist boyfriend get the chance to take it into a pawn shop. If I have no other choice, I'll burn it all in a heaping fire before they get their grubby hands on anything. I mean that. Remember I said it.
Mike Rayborn, your Messagimg service is Full and so cannot receive or send any messages.
Kragrifle
12-20-2017, 09:51
Hi Fred
Try it now or
kragrifle@suddenlink.net
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Hi Fred
Try it now or
kragrifle@suddenlink.net
This rifle has the initials of JS scratched (not carved) into the stock. I believe that this rifle was used in a National Guard unit or a Training Center where somebody scratched their initials on it to be able to retrieve the same rifle. Possibly for use on the rifle range.
My grampa, whose name was James Mett Shippee, helped build the rifle range at The Great Lakes Naval Training Center and he spent a lot of free time and duty time on that rifle range.
Further down is a photo of him on that range in late 1918 before he shipped out on the USS Wadsworth for duty on the Atlantic before the war ended in Europe.
I wonder whether he could've been the person who scratched his initials into the stock. He was known as Mett Shippee, but he probably would've used the JS initials to avoid using JMS or MS, which could've gotten him in trouble.
It's just speculation. Just wondering.
More unlikely things have happened, like me finding and acquiring Three rarely if ever found, early 1868 Springfield Trapdoor rifles with the assembly date of 1868 on their breech blocks, of which only 19 are now known to exist in public and private collections.
So, it's fuel for speculation anyway! Just thinking
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Here's James Mett Shippee (My Grampa) on the rifle range in 1918 that he helped build (he was a Carpenter).
Gramps was proud to've qualified Expert on the 03. I still have his Blues with his Expert patch.
He kinda looks like Steve McQueen in The Sandpebbles I think. :icon_wink:
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Good light outside for photos.
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Another great angle.
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The rifling is unworn with Sharp edges on the Lands.
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I have a cousin to this rifle, 909233!
Post some photos if you can
Does anyone here know what these stamps mean that are on this screw that is on the Scope Mount?
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Another angle
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JOHN COOK
12-30-2017, 02:19
What are the letters on the screw.? I can't make it out on the photo.
john
It appears to me to have NA5623 along the top. The other stamping along the bottom appear to be coded stamps.
I cannot post the other photos I took of it because I've lost that camera and iPhone somewhere in the house.
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I believe that I might have the provenance all wrong on this scope mount except for the name of the advanced 1903 Springfield collector I got it from.
Punch the Clown
12-31-2017, 02:40
Google search. NAS623 is a national aerospace screw standard.
Wow!
I kind of flipped a coin on whether it was a 5 or an S. Thanks!!!
have you or anyone an idea on why it was used? It was probably just handily available at the time.
Roadkingtrax
01-01-2018, 03:19
NAS-623-X-X is a common aerospace screw. NAS ostensibly replaced AN fasteners, but NAS, MS and AN get used interchangeably on engineering drawings.
Maybe the machinist who made it worked in aerospace?
I'm getting ready to put this rifle up for sale on Gunbroker. I haven't decided on an Auction or a Sale yet though.
Here are some clearer photos I've taken of the rifle with my iPad today that I'll use in the add when it goes up.
The wood and metal on this rifle is unworn and all edges and surfaces are untouched and still sharp, just as they were the day the rifle was assembled around August of 1918.
The rifling in the bore is unworn and still shows the tooling marks.
This rifle somehow escaped the use and rebuilding that virtually all 03's went through.
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If anyone has ever wondered what it's like to handle a World War I produced 1903 that looks and feels like it just came off of the assembly line in mid 1918, you ought to handle this rifle. It's barrel has a 7-18 Date on it of course. I'll try to get a photo of it tomorrow. 42942
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You can see how un marred and sharp the metal is.
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All stamps on the rifle are untouched and as sharp as the were the day the rifle was assembled. This stock and hand guard has what appears to be its original linseed oil finish from 100 years ago. The wood has never been cleaned and I've never linseed oiled the wood since I've owned the rifle.
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These Eagle stamps, when seen on 1903 stocks in this position, only appeared on some of the rifles made at Springfield Armory in 1918.
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Another view of the Eagle stamp
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Not many WWI produced 03's survived in this condition.
Not many of the WWI produced S.A. 03's survived in this condition 100 years later.
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Should bring some big bucks. One thing I've noticed about GunBroker is that the long precise descriptions bring more money along with sharp numerous pictures of course. I'm surprised you're getting rid of it. If you're just thinning the herd like most of us need to do, why get rid of your best one? I think you will miss it.
The bluing on this rifle is beautiful.
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Should bring some big bucks. One thing I've noticed about GunBroker is that the long precise descriptions bring more money along with sharp numerous pictures of course. I'm surprised you're getting rid of it. If you're just thinning the herd like most of us need to do, why get rid of your best one? I think you will miss it.
Allen, I've just lost interest in my 1903. I never shoot it and it just sits in the rifle cabinet. This rifle will definitely make somebody else happy now. I want to use the money I get for it to buy something else.
I also plan on getting one Garand rifle eventually to start using the sh!tload of surplus 30-06 I'm keeping.
The rifle's original bolt is the Correct J5 type with the straight handle.
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There is minimum wear on the bolts surface?
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The routing cuts on the grips of the bayonet that is going with the rifle are as sharp and untouched as is the wood on the 03.
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The wood has never been cleaned or messed with. 42955
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Another view...
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That is an extremely nice 03 Fred. A shame to let it go, but as time passes by they have to be handed off to the next generation to preserve. I haven't looked at my 03 and 03 A3s in a long time and its also time to part with some.
Thanks Labayo! I'm glad you like it.
I won't miss it all that much though. It's just a thing. Things come and go. Id give every single thing I've ever owned if I could just have all of my old dogs with me again.
However, it IS most certainly a great rarity among 1903's that were assembled for WWI because of its Excellent preservation. Quite unusual.
The Wolf
03-04-2018, 04:20
Just catching up on this great thread.... did u put the rifle up for sale yet on Gunbroker or Guns International? As others have commented, it should bring a hefty amount, especially with the detailed description you've already written here.
Best Regards from Virginia,
Chris
Hi Wolf. No, I haven't put it up yet. I think that I'll take pictures of it outside today since the weather is above freezing.
Thanks for reminding me! I'll get right on it! :hello:
I'm using my old thread to post some more photos of this rifle on so that I can in turn transfer them to a file. So I'm bumping this thread to the front to accomplish this.
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RETREAD123456
06-26-2018, 10:07
A. magnificent collection of arms made by and for Americans. Were they mine I would not fire them either. That is what the rebuilds are for.
I wish you the greatest success in ' REHOMING' them
Thanks Retread. I’ve just got the one 1903 now and it and the bayonet are up on the CMP forum for sale now.
There is a rifle exactly like yours, Fred, currently on gunbroker, minnesota seller. 1918 with eagle heead cartocuches
John Beard
09-15-2018, 06:08
Have you got a link?
Here you go.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/784398959
J.B.
Thanks John.
Yea, somebody got themselves a fine rifle.
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