M1903-A3 by Nail Ord?

[Merc]

I went to a gun show today just to look around and saw a pair of nice looking 1944 M1903-A3s for sale. One was a Smith-Corona that had mostly Remington external parts and the other was made by "Nail Ord." that looked all correct and was the nicer of the two. I googled Nail Ord. and found nothing. Anyone familiar with this company?

Update- National Ordnance (Natl Ord) is the company. The receiver stamping was poorly struck. I found it on another forum that also incorrectly identified the OEM as "Nail Ord" because the stamping on the receiver of the rifle they were looking at was also poorly struck. NOW I can do some digging.

Update 2 - This company made 03-A3s from milsurp parts in the 1960s for the civilian market and were never issued for military service. No wonder I never heard of them.

[1911Ron]

I sold my National ordnance as soon as i read up on it. See this thread: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16494

[Jiminvirginia]

Chuckindenver, via this forum, saved me from getting one of those. That and my own research indicates they are ticking time bombs. If you found one for 100.00 with the intent of replacing the receiver it might be a good deal.

[Merc]

Chuckindenver, via this forum, saved me from getting one of those. That and my own research indicates they are ticking time bombs. If you found one for 100.00 with the intent of replacing the receiver it might be a good deal.

This guy wanted $675.

[p246]

This guy wanted $675.

Just looked at one today. Guy said he had a nice 03A3 he couldn't get $500.00 out of. I asked to see it...ah now I know why...He's going to sell the parts and keep the receiver as a paper weight. The stock was cracked to by the way. All parts but barrel band and nose cap were R marked (parts I could see).

[Merc]

The one I saw was all blued and had a RA 1944 stamped barrel. I didn't see any stampings on the bolt. The butt plate was uncheckered. The sling and stacking swivels were unmarked. The stock and hand guard were in like new condition but no cartouche or proof marks. The rifle did appear to be in great condition. I could see someone buying it as a parts kit for a few hundred dollars and scrapping the receiver.

[bruce]

Have owned and shot two. Bought one for $100, the other for $200. Shot the hound out of the first one. It has been shot w/ corrosive ammo and poorly cleaned. Replaced the barrel and shot it several more years. Stunningly accurate rifle especially with 130 gr. JHP's handloaded hot. Sold it for $300. Far as I know ... it kept shooting just fine. Second one only kept it a couple of years. Shot very well especially with handloads. Sold it b/c I got a good offer. Haven't seen a nice one in a number of years. If found another one at a good price, would buy it, but would not likely shoot it. Plenty of good receivers around. Would strip off the parts, build a receiver. Would take the N.O. receiver and use it for a .22 type rifle using a M-2 bolt, etc. Sincerely. bruce.

[Merc]

Have owned and shot two. Bought one for $100, the other for $200. Shot the hound out of the first one. It has been shot w/ corrosive ammo and poorly cleaned. Replaced the barrel and shot it several more years. Stunningly accurate rifle especially with 130 gr. JHP's handloaded hot. Sold it for $300. Far as I know ... it kept shooting just fine. Second one only kept it a couple of years. Shot very well especially with handloads. Sold it b/c I got a good offer. Haven't seen a nice one in a number of years. If found another one at a good price, would buy it, but would not likely shoot it. Plenty of good receivers around. Would strip off the parts, build a receiver. Would take the N.O. receiver and use it for a .22 type rifle using a M-2 bolt, etc. Sincerely. bruce.

For $100 or $300, it would probably make sense to buy this rifle if you were planning to replace the receiver and make it a true 03-A3. $675 is a little steep since an original 03-A3 in good condition sells for $700 - $800 around here.

[Jeff L]

The receivers are cast, not forged, making them weak.

[p246]

The one I saw was all blued and had a RA 1944 stamped barrel. I didn't see any stampings on the bolt. The butt plate was uncheckered. The sling and stacking swivels were unmarked. The stock and hand guard were in like new condition but no cartouche or proof marks. The rifle did appear to be in great condition. I could see someone buying it as a parts kit for a few hundred dollars and scrapping the receiver.

The stock on this one was unmarked and too thick so I think it was an aftermarket of some kind and it was cracked. The barrel was also a 1944 Remington. The butt plate was cast junk. The barrel band wasunmarked and very thin. All the bolt was R marked. The rifle was dark blued. Some good parts, but a lot of National Ord. Junk to.

[Dick Hosmer]

One of the principals (if not the owner) of National Ordnance was the late Bob Hill, one of the premier Springfield collectors/authorities of the "trapdoor" period. Al Frasca's first book (co-authored with Bob) was largely based on the latter's collection and expertise. Nice guy, one of my mentors in the 1970s-80s - he should have known better.

[jgaynor]

National Ordnance made 03-A3's, M1's, M1 Carbines and Armalite knockoffs. One of the most comprehensive sources of information on the company and its principals can be found at the following link http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_natord.html

(the 03-A3's are discussed on the third page about halfway down)

Properly done an investment cast receiver is not necessarily a bad thing. Most Ruger firearms use investment cast receivers.

Personally I would avoid firing Ball ammunition in an 03-A3 made by National Ord, Santa Fe, or Golden State.

regards.

Jim

[Dick Hosmer]

Thank you for the clarification. Apparently I was misinformed - my info did not come from Bob directly (we only talked trapdoors!!) rather from a source - who occasionally still contributes to Jouster - who knew Bob fairly well in SoCal prior to Bob's move to Carson City NV (where he passed away circa 1997/8). I really miss our discussions, he had amassed a truly world-class Springfield collection.

[Merc]

The receivers are cast, not forged, making them weak.

I guess product liability issues in the 1960s were not what they are today. Some of their home brewed barrels and receivers were both rupturing and the rifles were never recalled.

[Sunray]

'Nail Ord' is somebody who can't type. National Ordnance were professional Bubba's like Gibbs et al. Took '03A3 receivers and made 'em into 'A4's.

[Merc]

'Nail Ord' is somebody who can't type. National Ordnance were professional Bubba's like Gibbs et al. Took '03A3 receivers and made 'em into 'A4's.

I took a good look at the receiver and the top of the "T" was missing and that's what I meant by a poorly struck logo that appeared to be "Nail" instead of "Natl," I saw a photo of another receiver on a different forum and it also had a missing T top and another photo of a ruptured cast receiver. You have to wonder why they thought their receivers would contain the powder charge of a .30-06.

[Dick Hosmer]

I am STILL looking for the source of the 1903 that I observed many, many years ago, which had an early receiver marked "Rock Island Arcenal" in serifed typeface. No, I am NOT making this up - was at a show, and I called it to the attention of several people. FWIW, it was a very clear, full, "C", not the top half of an "S", or any other type of die-break anomaly.

[fguffey]

The receivers are cast, not forged, making them weak.

I was at a gun show in Mesquite, Texas when I noticed a man trying to sell an 03 Remington, the dealer refused to talk to the seller because the barrel was stamped Santa Fe. I purchased the rifle for $125.00, the seller threw in 2 boxes of 30/06 R-P ammo he purchases with the rifle from Sears. The rifle had a Remington receiver and Remington barrel with a hunting type stock. I took the rifle to the range and found it to be one of the most accurate rifles I have without a scope. I intended to use the receiver on an A4 barrel I have that is chambered for 308 Norma Mag. Because of the accuracy I applied the 'leaver policy', I lefter the way I founder.

At the same show a dealer had a rifle he was going to sell for $200.00, that was before experts convinced him it was a US Presentation type rifle. When I finally got back to where he was located he had decided not to sell the rifle. He did allow me to see the Mauser, it was a National Ordinance. I told him it was a little late in the day to try to sell it but he could start over the next day.

F. Guffey