View Full Version : 100 years old
My early and excellent shooting M1917 Winchester (Serial Number 65030) will be 100 years old in a couple months (November 15, 2017). I find it interesting that the technology that was incorporated in this weapon is still being used unchanged today to manufacture modern rifles. I would like to hear about any other M1917 with a low serial number (Winchester, Eddystone or Remington). The first day of manufacture for the Winchester M1917 was May, 21, 1917 when 45 were assembled.
My Eddystone is a later 1918 rifle. One of my favorites to shoot and built like a tank. I do wish the sights had the ability to dial windage.
I don't miss the windage adjustment so much since my 17 is zeroed at 100 yards with the sight leaf at its lowest possible position without any compensation. I just aim directly at the target. My Enfield No. 4 Mk 1* has a similar fixed windage sight. The British obviously didn't see the need for a windage adjustment even though the sight that was developed for the M1903 would have worked on the M1917.
IditarodJoe
09-22-2017, 03:39
What a timely message, Merc! Until you brought this up, it hadn't occurred to me that our 1917 will pass the century mark sometime in January. It's a very nice "circled star" Winchester that, in the past, was a favorite for both my wife and me. Over the last few years we've been shooting mostly trap, but January might be a good time to bring the old "Enfield" out for a little 100th birthday party.
Now that I think about it, we have a Garand and a couple of 1903A3s that will turn 75 next year. Something to look forward to. Thanks for the inspiration! :icon_salut:
I have C.S. Ferris' "United States Rifle Model of 1917" publication that has Winchester's manufacturing table of date vs. serial number. I'm glad to provide the W manufacturing date to anyone. Just need your serial number.
Ferris' publication also provided Remington and Eddystone tables of receivers vs. observed original barrel dates for a wide range of serial numbers. Although not as precise as the Winchester table, these tables can get you close to the month and year of manufacture. Apparently, R and E manufacturing records were not available to Ferris when he published his book.
Nonetheless, it's a great book for the M1917 collector and should be available on Amazon.com.
Dan Shapiro
09-22-2017, 04:30
I have Win 78793. Definitely not "original" as it's been re-barreled. Unfortunately, the original barrel was a VFW sewer pipe. Rounds were key-holing the target at 25 yards, thanks to years of firing salutes with ammo with corrosive primers.
I have Win 78793. Definitely not "original" as it's been re-barreled. Unfortunately, the original barrel was a VFW sewer pipe. Rounds were key-holing the target at 25 yards, thanks to years of firing salutes with ammo with corrosive primers.
Winchester 78793 - November 27, 1917. Star circle stamped receiver? Who made the replacement barrel? It shouldn't matter if it has a replacement barrel as long as it shoots well. The 17 was built to last but not if abused and neglected.
I mentioned on an earlier thread that I saw a near mint VFW Eddystone for sale at a gun show with a bore so clogged with residue from firing blanks that it would just barely pass the light from a bore light. The asking price was $1200.
Dan Shapiro
09-23-2017, 08:45
Star circle stamped receiver? Who made the replacement barrel?
Yep, star/circle on left side of receiver. Barrel was a replacement from CMP. Had I given it more thought (and had a few extra bucks), there's an outfit in Texas that will drill out the original barrel and re-sleeve it, leaving it looking like it still has the original barrel. Live and learn.
Enjoy it for what it is. Think of it this way - you saved the rifle from being sold for parts. Besides, a fresh barrel with crisp rifling and unworn muzzle/throat should group nicely at the range. I would have done the same thing. There were quite a few 17s that were given new barrels for WW2.
I don't miss the windage adjustment so much since my 17 is zeroed at 100 yards with the sight leaf at its lowest possible position without any compensation. I just aim directly at the target. My Enfield No. 4 Mk 1* has a similar fixed windage sight. The British obviously didn't see the need for a windage adjustment even though the sight that was developed for the M1903 would have worked on the M1917.
My range has steel to 700 yards. On a windy day I miss windage. Of course several of my milsurps have no provision for wind. This rifle really like 168 SMKs over 46 grains of Varget.
Yeah, a long shot like that will be affected a lot by the wind. The range I belong to has target set-ups only at 100 and 200 yards. I mostly shoot at the 100 yard target where the wind is less of a factor. The wind drift is much more noticeable at 200 yards. I enjoy impressing fellow shooters who are using a scope on a modern rifle by shooting tight groups with a 99 year old M1917 with open sights. I've been reloading Hornady 150 gr FMJBT with 48 gr of Hodgdon BL-C (2) in .30-06 for the Winchester M1917 and the Remington 03-A3.
Actually it will be interesting to see how my eyes hold out. The peep sights on the 1917, Garand, and No 4s are still easy for me to see. The Notch type on my No1s and 1903s have started to become a challenge at longer ranges. Painting my front sights Gold helped. Oh the joy of getting old....I have another property we shoot longer ranges at. Anything past 800 gets to be a challenge for me personally. My shooting partner who is 27 beats the heck out of a 24 inch gong at 1000 yards with a nice IHC Garand. The time from shot to the return of the ping is the fun part for me. I also find it fun to take younger folks out and shoot at long range with old dinosaurs and make hits.
Long distance shooting ranges don't exist around here due to the hilly terrain. We have to settle for what's available. Usually 200 yards is the max at our local gun clubs. It would be interesting to see how well my open sights (and eyes) would do at 800, 1000 or 3000 yards. The target would have to be about the size of a school bus.
Long distance shooting ranges don't exist around here due to the hilly terrain. We have to settle for what's available. Usually 200 yards is the max at our local gun clubs. It would be interesting to see how well my open sights (and eyes) would do at 800, 1000 or 3000 yards. The target would have to be about the size of a school bus.
The benefit of living in Kansas but it has its downs to....weather changes all the time, wind 0 one day 30 mph the next day. Not as much to do...the ocean is a long way away etc etc.
The wife and I drove to Phoenix, AZ in April and saw the effects of the wind, especially in Texas. Amarillo has to be the wind capital of the US. We saw wind generators all along I 40 and several trucks that were blown over and laying on their sides. I'd like to see how much windage adjustment would be required to hit an 800 yard target in that wind.
The nice thing about reloading is the chance to experiment. I tried a variety of bullets in my M1917 and 03-A3 and the original military style 150 gr full metal jackets seem to work the best. I tried both flat based and boat tails and I seem to shoot more accurately with boat tails. The 1944 Enfield No. 4 Mk1* does better with the 150 gr full metal jacket flat based bullets.
The wife and I drove to Phoenix, AZ in April and saw the effects of the wind, especially in Texas. Amarillo has to be the wind capital of the US. We saw wind generators all along I 40 and several trucks that were blown over and laying on their sides. I'd like to see how much windage adjustment would be required to hit an 800 yard target in that wind.
The nice thing about reloading is the chance to experiment. I tried a variety of bullets in my M1917 and 03-A3 and the original military style 150 gr full metal jackets seem to work the best. I tried both flat based and boat tails and I seem to shoot more accurately with boat tails. The 1944 Enfield No. 4 Mk1* does better with the 150 gr full metal jacket flat based bullets.
Very true on reloading. I live close enough to Sierra to drive over and get their seconds. Most are close in weight but the ogive length is all over the place. I separate them by ogive length and use the longer ones in my 1917 and 03A3. The short ogive bullets go in the FN FAL. This is on the 168 grain SMKs. The longer the ogive equates to a longer bearing surface. My bolt guns love that. The FN does not seem to care, but is also not as accurate. I also buy the FB 150 grain seconds but they all go to the FN. I do the same thing with the 303 buying their 174 HPBT's. They work well in the No 4's and in one No 1 that has a really good bore. The older or more worn No 1's do not like the HPBT's. I have found all but one shoot the 180 grain FB seconds just fine. The No 1 that will not shoot the 180's won't shoot anything well. The bore is pitted. I have been going to try cast but keep running out of time. If you've ever been to Sierra its kind of neat to walk in and buy bullets by the pound and watch them dip them out of 30 gallon cans, only to be fed one at a time to 100 year old work horses.
Fred Pillot
09-26-2017, 02:09
I have Remington s/n 9441. I believe it spent some time in Canada. Bought as surplus from gun store in the late '80s.
I have Remington s/n 9441. I believe it spent some time in Canada. Bought as surplus from gun store in the late '80s.
Fred my 1917 is Canadian marked to. Most of the red paint has worn or probably been cleaned off the nose. There is some red paint residue but one has to look for it. The stock and receiver have the C/broad arrow mark. WWII lend lease that came back home.
I have Remington s/n 9441. I believe it spent some time in Canada. Bought as surplus from gun store in the late '80s.
Nice pick! Really early serial number. It was made in November, 1917.
My Winchester Model of 1917 US Army rifle turned 100 years old today, November 15, 2017. I celebrated by taking it to the range and firing off a few rounds. The old war horse performed well, as usual. There were a few hunters at the range zeroing their modern rifles and they all had to handle and admire my '17.
The 1917 (and the original model adopted by the Brits) Enfield is based on the 1898 Mauser rifle design, and so is any modern bolt rifle I can think of!
The 1917 (and the original model adopted by the Brits) Enfield is based on the 1898 Mauser rifle design, and so is any modern bolt rifle I can think of!
Correct. Ever wonder how much and how long royalties were paid to Mauser.
Dan Shapiro
11-16-2017, 06:29
Ever wonder how much and how long royalties were paid to Mauser.
Mauser sued the US Government when they came out with the '03. The lawsuit was held up by WWI (amazing how long cases can be dragged out in court). The lawsuit went all the way to the US Supreme Court after WWI. The Court awarded Mauser $6 million. Then consider, Mauser originally offered to settle the suit with the US for about 1/2 million.
Ever wonder how much and how long royalties were paid to Mauser.
Mauser sued the US Government when they came out with the '03. The lawsuit was held up by WWI (amazing how long cases can be dragged out in court). The lawsuit went all the way to the US Supreme Court after WWI. The Court awarded Mauser $6 million. Then consider, Mauser originally offered to settle the suit with the US for about 1/2 million.
Where did you get this info from. I know we paid so many cents for each stripper clip up to a certain amount, and about 200,000 for something else. The 03 was copied from the 1893 Mauser, with some changes to avoid patent infringements, but it did not do so in a couple instance
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.