View Full Version : Win 97 trench, opinions needed
Please see more images below
[https://i.imgur.com/oBdwxU9.jpg
SPEEDGUNNER
08-31-2017, 05:40
Photobucket is the $uck!
Could you see the pictures now?
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f290/lisik/Winch%2097%20trench%20015_zpsut2n2sso.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SJGBCIB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/c2eq3UD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9WntMVn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Dp02Fkc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cz8HTES.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CxEOlss.jpg
Serial looks too late for a WB cartouche and 6 row adapter. As well, the bomb on the receiver is generally seen on GHD proofed guns.
None of this is absolute.
Is the front end mismatched? Can not tell from the pics.
There is something amiss on the adapter, one rivet shows the other appears totally ground down.
The mag tube may not be right, it may be commercial.
Need more detailed pics.
front end is matching, will post more pics
https://i.imgur.com/xKndJKm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/A0HsPbr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YVQVMi0.jpg
The lug may be original but the heat shield is not. Missing rivets
Yah. They did not show up properly in the pics
it is a real trench gun, pretty sure of that.
But it may have been restored, because the parts seem to be a mix of early and late.
However, there is some variance. The mag tube does not look right, it is not from a trench.
Please post pics of the stock swivel inletting, it is almost impossible to fake - you need a milling machine - and that will tell it is is an original trench stock.
*usually* - NOT always - the WB cartouche goes on a gun with a six row adaptor and no bomb on the receiver.
GHD usually goes with a four row, bomb and often a filled front sight hole.
I had a pretty much unissued GHD in the 935K range that had a 6 row, no bomb on receiver. That would be a "transition" gun between the inspectors. This one is later, has the WB and the bomb. So it is possible the stock was switched. Or not. Not an exact science. From where I sit I can not say it is an absolutely correct trench, and at the prices they bring, collectors will feel the same.
Missing the period after the S on the side of the receiver. Bomb looks a little strange, light,
Can not tell much about the finish from the pics, could be a reblue.
It should be a bright shiney blue finish. It is rust blue, and if you shine a white light on it, like from an LED flashlight, you should be able to see the brown rust under the finish. If not, it was re-done, which would be consistent with the mix of parts.
These guns are so heavily faked you have to be really careful. It is NOT an obvious fake, but can not say from what I have seen that it is totally correct.
Tom Doniphon
09-02-2017, 12:24
I think there is a period after the S. It's just lightly stamped, and the photo lighting makes it even more difficult to see. A lot of the trench guns in that serial number range have a lightly stuck period after the S.
I have data on a couple of other guns in this serial number range that are configured the same way: US & bomb on receiver, WB cartouche, and 6 row heat shield. But it's also around this serial number that the US & bomb marked receivers, GHD cartouche, and 4 row heat shield guns start to dominate.
Thank you both, gentlemen. The last post sums up the thread, just wonder what the difference between commercial and trench mag tube.
I am going to post a thread on M12 trench gun that I was offered last night.
There are holes for the takedown lever.
this is a page from a wartime manual for the military shotguns: it shows the holes too - for magazine locking pin. Or am I looking at some other hole?
https://i.imgur.com/5tw9V7v.jpg
And this quote comes from another forum:
Tom Doniphon
Post subject: Re: Real of Fake? Know anything about Winchester 97 Trench G
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:16 pm
Tournament Grade
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:21 pm
Posts: 113
WW2 Model 97 trench guns have the xtra hole in the magazine tube for the takedown lever.
WW2 Model 12 trench guns do NOT have the xtra hole.
WW1 Model 1897 trench guns do NOT have the xtra hole.
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