Arisaka Type 44

[jim-d]

Is there a way to date a series 1 type 44 Arisaka # 00197 ?
Thank you

[Deano41]

Per the book "The Type 38 Arisaka" by Francis C. Allan,the Series 1, Type 44 Cavalry Carbine, estimated date of production: Sept.1937 through April 1941. Estimated production: 9,500

[dave]

yeh, so? Do not mean to be sarcastic but is there a question or something else? According to McCollum (he gives no dates) only 90,000 were made, pretty close considering both are nothing but estimates based on known serial numbers.

[jim-d]

Thank you Deano

[Deano41]

By the way jim-d, you gave the key information regarding your question (many don't know how to identify what they have, or where to look). Type of rifle, series number, and serial number.

[dave]

yeh, so? Do not mean to be sarcastic but is there a question or something else? According to McCollum (he gives no dates) only 90,000 were made, pretty close considering both are nothing but estimates based on known serial numbers.

For some reason when I posted this, the question by jim-d was not on my screen, thread started with 'Deano-41' answer! Strange!

[Michaelp]

I believe the 00 prefix denotes a rebuild and taken out of active service. School rifle.

[Deano41]

Yes Michaelp, you are correct in most cases. However in Kokura Arsenal's case, they used a five digit numbering plan for their Type 44 carbines. Therefore, carbine 00197 would have been 197 in the series, with the two preceding zeros maintaining the five digit numbering plan. If that carbine had been taken out of service, it would have had two or three zeros preceding 00197, sometimes to the left of the series mark.

Not being blessed with a good memory, I rely on books to provide the information on the MilSurp weapons I have collected. In the case of Japanese weapons there are many variables in arsenals and series.

[jim-d]

Great info...thanks. Another forum member advised that #197 is the lowest recorded series 1 type 44, the previous being #472. Not sure of the relevance, but nice to have as much info as possible. It is a great rifle, all matching #'s, some serial #'s, some mfg #'s, and the mum is intact. I think it was a great find.

[Deano41]

" Another forum member advised that #197 is the lowest recorded series 1 type 44, the previous being #472"
He must be looking at the same book I have. :>)

[dave]

I thought the three inter-locked rings over the 'mum' indicated school rifle? I saw one like that, few years back.

[jim-d]

I thought the three inter-locked rings over the 'mum' indicated school rifle? I saw one like that, few years back.

Nothing like that on this rifle

[Deano41]

I thought the three inter-locked rings over the 'mum' indicated school rifle? I saw one like that, few years back.

The Three rings on the "Mum" indicates the rifle was taken out of active service with the military. The rifle could have been given to a school, or sold to another country, as in the case of the Type 30 rifles sold to England and Russia during WWI.

[chucklamb]

I think a safe bet on the year of production would be the first year for T44's, if it is a "no" series, first variation [there were 3 variations] Tokyo rifle = four intertwined circles behind the serial number.
The known serial number range for the "No" series T-44's is 7-56827 with no "O's" in front of the #'s for IJA military rifles.
Your rifle was probably made in 1912 if it is one of these. A picture of the left side of the receiver would help to identify the manufacturer and series and a time period for its DOB. Hope this helps.

Chuck

PS. My resource book is "The Type 38 Arisaka" By Francis Allan and Harold W. Macy, Edited by Joseph P. Koss, "Banzai" Special Project #8, 2007, Pgs.313-350.

[Deano41]

Chuck, we have the same book. His carbine is a Kokura, series one. Check page 335. :>)

Page 57 explains the use of the two zeros preceding 197, it was to maintain a five digit serial number.

[chucklamb]

My not reading previous posts carefully has its disadvantages :]
Thanx Deano41.

Chuck [lambo35, Gunboards Forums]

[Deano41]

My not reading previous posts carefully has its disadvantages :]
Thanx Deano41.

Chuck

We are all friends here on CSP ( well most of us) Mr. Lamb. :>)

I buy books on every firearm I acquire. I enjoy learning about the history and workings of them. Not having a memory, I rely on the books for information.