Good thread on headspace and ammo

[JB White]

The header line sums it up

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?552601-How-many-rounds-is-the-Lee-Enfield-NO-4-Mk2-rated-for-before-problems-HEADSPACE

[DaveL]

Great thread JB. Thanks!

[bigedp51]

I see my fingers, my RCBS case mastering gauge and my ammo in the photos Alan De Enfield posted.
Alan De Enfield is a parrot repeating what others have said and what they posted in the past.

Bottom line, the Canadian No.4 manual tells you if the bolt closes on the .074 gauge then select the shortest bolthead that will not close on the .074 gauge.

1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (Complete Set)
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=335-1991-No.4-%28All-Marks%29-.303-Rifle-Manuals-%28Complete-Set%29

Below is another of "MY" photos from the past showing what a Prvi Partizan and Greek HXP cases look like fired in the same Enfield rifle.
Not only does the Prvi case have thicker rims, the base diameter larger and it is also .010 thicker in the base web area.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/privihxp-1_zpsoxvc4fwv.jpg

I fireform all my cases using the rubber o-ring method and using .312 pistol bullets.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/303pistolbjpg_zps9c6de94d.jpg


Bottom line, in the distant past Alan De Enfield was called Alan De Pretentious, and nothing has changed about Alan or "military" headspace.

And the link posted above is nothing more than a rehash of material posted years ago, and the photos below were taken by me and not Alan De Pretentious who never had a original idea of his own.


http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/thicker3-1_zpsnrui02ll.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/thicker1-1_zpsxy8vz67v.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/thicker2-1_zpskordsiz6.jpg

But there are two sides to the story, below is from the 1947 "Competitive Rifle Shooting" by the Australian Jim Sweet on the Enfield rifle.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/page91-1_zpsnc21wn55.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/HSGauge-1_zpsjgqjipp5.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/central-1_zpsyhcsooha.jpg

And even Brian Labudda and Ian Skennerton tell you to tighten up your headspace. (just like the old days Mr. JB White)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bk1_zpsmg7ayktt.jpg

And my center bedded No.4 still has two bolt heads fitted.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP1355-1_zpsptjasgxm.jpg

[Art]

Moderator,

Can this be posted as a sticky??

[bigedp51]

Below is from my 1953 book "Competitive Rifle Shooting" by Jim Sweet and Australian National shooting champion.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/page91-1_zpsnc21wn55.jpg

Enfield rifles accurized by Fulton of Bisley had their headspace tighten up at or even below the minimum of .064.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/central-1_zpsyhcsooha.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/HSGauge-1_zpsjgqjipp5.jpg

Bottom line, there is a difference between the Military Enfield headspace of .064 minimum and .074 maximum and what competitive Enfield shooters set their headspace at.

And even the Enfield rifle guru Ian Skernnerton with Brian Lubudda tells you to tighten up your headspace.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/bk1_zpsmg7ayktt.jpg

My center bedded No.4 Enfield below has two bolt heads fitted, and the #2 bolt head just kisses my cases with the thickest rims. Meaning this bolt head is set for .059 or .005 longer than minimum headspace.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP1355-1_zpsptjasgxm.jpg

[JB White]

Ed, need we go back to the old days when NOS surplus rifles and spare parts were easily available as gum drops in a penny candy store? Those days are long gone.

Your pictorials have always been educational. Keep in mind that only a few Enfield shooters are competitive. The vast majority are collector-shooters who aren't about to invest more in books and tools than they do their collections. In fact, most lack all the skills and equipment needed to take a rifle out of the collector arena and on to the competition bench.
What younger eager collectors do is pick and choose what they perceive as the quick fix and the final results are less than stellar. We've seen the damage done on the used rifle market. That's why the shift has gone to "Leave well enough alone". These are not the old days anymore. I appreciated your post without your having called out my handle. I also don't care about old pissin matches you've had with others on other boards.
As far as others using old info that you posted in the past in free domain, you should be flattered that someone would save it and share it when the need arises.

Meanwhile I will continue to help guide others to maintain collector status in regard to their beloved rifles. It doesn't do any good for them to spend good money to reduce the value and desirability.

[bigedp51]

Mr. White

If your a collector and only shoot the rifle once a year or less, even a few thousandths over maximum headspace will not hurt anything.
What should be remembered is the Australian Son at the link you posted is shooting and reloading military Greek HXP cases which withstand longer headspace.
At the opposite end of the spectrum if you shoot Winchester .303 cases they will never last as long as the HXP cases.

I tested one of my Enfield rifles and set the headspace from .058 to .084, yes .010 over max and nothing happened.
The problem is not the Enfield rifle, the problem is our dies and American SAAMI .303 cases were not made for reloading in the military Enfield rifles long fat chamber.
And if Lake City made thicker .303 British ammunition like out 7.62 cases, Enfield collectors and shooters wouldn't be saying much about headspace.

[Scott from Indiana]

"Ed, need we go back to the old days when NOS surplus rifles and spare parts were easily available as gum drops in a penny candy store"

JB, I would go back, please sign me up!

Scott