Lets play a game

[scosgt]

How many things can you find wrong with this gun:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/963988248/Winchester-Model-1897-Trench-Gun-WWII.htm

[scosgt]

And the same seller has this, which is essentially correct. However, what can you tell me about the bayonet?

http://www.gunsamerica.com/948262928/Winchester-Model-1897-Trench-Gun-WWI.htm

[emmagee1917]

Fake bayonet adapter attached to a fake handguard held onto a fake barrel with three incorrect screws mounted ahead of an incorrect plug .
How's that for a start ?
Chris

[emmagee1917]

Bayonet is a Winchester production for the British P14 . Same as a M1917 US which the trench guns used except for the US markings being missing . Ie. , will fit and function but not correct.
Chris

[joem]

WOW, Somebody is about to be scammed.

[scosgt]

Bayonet is a Winchester production for the British P14 . Same as a M1917 US which the trench guns used except for the US markings being missing . Ie. , will fit and function but not correct.
Chris

NOPE. Bayonet is a left over WWI Winchester which was sold with commercial trench guns.

[scosgt]

Fake bayonet adapter attached to a fake handguard held onto a fake barrel with three incorrect screws mounted ahead of an incorrect plug .
How's that for a start ?
Chris

HINT:

How about the markings on the receiver and stock?

[Ironlip]

HINT:

How about the markings on the receiver and stock?

All are fake of course. The fact that the ordnance bomb is in front of the US on the left side of the receiver is mildly humorous. Those stamps are at least the correct style and size, though the bomb may be a bit small. The stamps on the stock are totally wrong: the placement, the size and the WB almost appears to have been made out of parts, rather than a complete WB in a box stamp which I'm sure you can buy from Numrich. Honestly, I think the people who make and sell those stamps should be boiled in oil. Their only purpose is fakery and I don't know how Numrich justifies selling them.

I don't know whether the bayonet mount is fake, but it is broken and rusted, totally impossible that it goes with the handguard. The gun is actually a riot gun. See the ring holding the mag tube to the barrel. Finally, it's too early for WWII. Of course, I suppose it could possibly have been a blanket procurement gun.

That's all I see for now.

[mtrpdw]

Reference Listing: http://www.gunsamerica.com/963988248...h-Gun-WWII.htm (WWII Trench Gun), the Heat Shield/Bayonet Adaptor is a late 1960's-early 1970's Stevens Heat Shield Assembly purportedly made for the Vietnam era/issue Stevens 77E Riot Gun to turn them into "Trench Guns".

However, it's never been fully verified or documented that these Stevens' Heat Shields ever made it Vietnam. A prototype/limited issue 77E Trench Gun with the Stevens' Heat Shield is shown on page 286 in Thomas F. Swearengen's book "The World's Fighting Shotguns" (1978)

The Stevens assembly uses the Garand M5/M5E1 short bayonet - not the usual M1917 long bayonet.

Whatever metal composition the Stevens company used for the Bayonet Adaptor portion of these Heat Shield assembly, they always discolored/corroded compared to the brightly blued metal of the heat shield itself. This was also fairly common on earlier Stevens M520/30 and M620 Trench Guns, though the discoloration was never as bad.

The Stevens Heat Shields apparently were surplus'd off to USA law enforcement for use during the turbulent period of riots that occurred in the USA during the mid 1960's to mid 1970's. These Heat Shield/Adaptors show up on eBay/GunBroker fairly often.

Photos below show the Stevens assembly on a Winchester M1200 "multi-purpose" riot gun (as marketed by the now defunct 1970's era "Service Armament Co."), and a 1970's era Remington M870 riot gun (Photos public domain on the internet).

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc442/mtrpdw/Service%20Armament%20M1200%20System%20wM7%20Launch er%20and%20Munitions.jpg (http://s1212.photobucket.com/user/mtrpdw/media/Service%20Armament%20M1200%20System%20wM7%20Launch er%20and%20Munitions.jpg.html)
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc442/mtrpdw/Florida%20Police%20Riot%20Trng%201968.jpg (http://s1212.photobucket.com/user/mtrpdw/media/Florida%20Police%20Riot%20Trng%201968.jpg.html)

Heat Shield/Bayonet Adaptor on this listing is definitely not a Winchester factory manufactured Heat Shield assembly.

[scosgt]

The entire gun is a fake.

[PhillipM]

Thanks for the post! I don't know much about trench guns, but I just learned some things. Even a rank amatuer like me should spot the US stamp as fake. The first thing I noticed was the Allen head screws.

[Allen]

Thanks for the post! I don't know much about trench guns, but I just learned some things. Even a rank amatuer like me should spot the US stamp as fake. The first thing I noticed was the Allen head screws.

Same here. Unfortunately the screws is all I would have noticed. I'm fairly familiar with the Win 1897 but don't keep up with what's correct for a trench gun but before laying out that kind of money I would have researched that rusty barrel against that shinny blued handguard/heatshield.

[Tom Doniphon]

Did anyone else notice the punch marks next to the Winchester proofs on the receiver and barrel?

[scosgt]

Did anyone else notice the punch marks next to the Winchester proofs on the receiver and barrel?

I don't think they mean much. Supposedly that indicates a re-build by Winchester, but they are probably as fake as the rest of the markings. It is a humper, and not even a good one at that.

Actually, the punch marks are wrong too. The one on the receiver should be closer to the barrel and the other one.

[Tom Doniphon]

I don't think the position of the punch marks is necessarily wrong. I've seen a couple of other guns with them like this gun. Big Larry had a Winchester refinished WW1 1897 trench gun that had punch marks in the same exact position. But I'm not sure why they are on the subject gun. I can't tell if it's been refinished or not. It really doesn't matter because as you said, the gun is totally bogus.

[Timberwolf]

The heatshield looks like a TacStar unit.

The ordnance marking on the metal look too sharp.

QD swivels.

It just looks like a tarted up 1897.