US M49 Observation Telescopes - Some Questions

[cwbuff]

I'm trying to learn some things about the US 49 Observation Telescopes - particularly the WW2 scopes. I believe there were 3 manufactures: 1) Bausch & Lomb Optical Company, Rochester NY, 2) Argus, and 3) Seiler Instrument Inc., St Louis MO. Is that correct?

The M49 appears to have serial numbers that continued into the Vietnam era. So I assume that each manufacturer did not have their own serial numbers or were given serial number blocks that allowed continuous serial numbers. Is that correct?

How many M49s were made in WW2 (i.e., what was the approximate highest serial number for WW2)?

Thanks.

[Col. Colt]

I'm pretty certain Bausch and Lomb did NOT ever make the M49 - but they did make their own spotting scope with almost identical specifications - the M48, know in Civilian life as the "NRA Model". Before the end of WWII the M49 superceeded the M48 as the standard spotting scope, and was in use as a standard issue item until very recently. (Anyone here know when the M49 was replaced?)

When WWII started, as usual, the United States was caught somewhat unprepared. There was a sudden need for Spotting Scopes, for Artillery, Snipers, Forward Observers, etc.

The US Government supposedly bought up all the "off the shelf" supplies of Bausch and Lomb's "NRA Model" and redesignated it the "M4", later changed to the "M48". At the same time, the Argus built 55MM scope was also made a standard item of issue, with the new designation of "M49", and I would assume civilian stocks would have probably also been acquired, if available.

US Contracted items are frequently produced by multiple makers - both to increase supply and diversify sources in case one is compromised. I'm sure someone here knows more about the M49 than I - I specialize in the B&L scopes as a very new, neophyte collector........ CC

[cwbuff]

I have a collection of the B&L NRA variants. Now I'm trying to learn about the M49. I'm not sure where I got the info on B&L and Argus, but here is my source for Seiler.
http://www.seilerinst.com/divisions/manufacturing/products/additional-instruments-and-equipment/m49-spotting-scope/

[pmclaine]

I have a collection of the B&L NRA variants. Now I'm trying to learn about the M49. I'm not sure where I got the info on B&L and Argus, but here is my source for Seiler.
http://www.seilerinst.com/divisions/manufacturing/products/additional-instruments-and-equipment/m49-spotting-scope/

Is there anyway to buy a scope from Seiler?

[M1Garandy]

Is there anyway to buy a scope from Seiler?

In 2011, I contacted them and was told that the MINIMUM order value was $250 and if I met that, they'd sell me the parts I wanted. I didn't need $250 in parts so I traded off my project M49. It's worth contacting them to ask if they'd sell a complete scope.

[Ted Brown]

Just general information... I have a M49. The metal tag on the scope just says TELESCOPE OBSERVATION M49 and the serial number which is 420XX. There are no other markings.

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Just general information... I have a M49. The metal tag on the scope just says TELESCOPE OBSERVATION M49 and the serial number which is 420XX. There are no other markings.

I have a mint unused M49 W/E (Equipment, Case and Tripod) SN #485XX packed in an original cardboard box with TM Manual TM 9-6650-212-12 NSN (6650-530-0960); however, box has a different serial number on the control label SN #389XX dated 6/90. So the label on the packing box shows that they were still being manufactured in 1990. I know the USMC still had them in the system well into the mid-1990s for MTU and Scout Sniper use. While stationed at MCB, Camp Pendleton, CA (88-91) as a CID Agent, I was assigned a theft case involving some Marines assigned to 1st ANGLICO and noticed the observers were still using the M49 in the field at that time (1989 time frame). I don't know what type of spotting scope the USMC is issuing at this time.

RT

[pmclaine]

Im buying a new in the box M49 (with accessories) right now. Perhaps they are releasing them from inventory. This is the second batch that the person Im buying from has got his hands on. Im guessing its one of the Seiler made scopes probably from the 90's.

Not cheap at $850. I really don't need it with a Kowa on hand but Im thinking I want to smell that sealed air and it will be a lighter weight alternative with some cool factor to match my M1941, M40 and M40A1 rifles.

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Im buying a new in the box M49 (with accessories) right now. Perhaps they are releasing them from inventory. This is the second batch that the person Im buying from has got his hands on. Im guessing its one of the Seiler made scopes probably from the 90's.

Not cheap at $850. I really don't need it with a Kowa on hand but Im thinking I want to smell that sealed air and it will be a lighter weight alternative with some cool factor to match my M1941, M40 and M40A1 rifles.

Amazing! Didn't realize the M49s were bringing that much. I did some bartering with a friend who collects anything military shooting related. I traded him a mint USMC Shooting Team "Shooting Box" and a sling for the M49. I bought about a dozen of the shooting boxes (last version the USMC issued) at a surplus store in San Diego, CA, in 1991 for $10 ea. The owner said they bought them at a DRMO auction. I understand the shooting boxes bring a good price today, especially the earlier leather shooting boxes. Both the USMC Shooting Teams and Scout Snipers used the shooting boxes for cleaning gear and related accessories.

For those that are not familiar with the USMC Teams shooting box, here is a link with some good photos and recent price.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/195730-usmc-painted-competition-range-box/

[pmclaine]

I see used/rebuilt M49s with accessories going for plus or minus $500. Im paying an extra $350 I guess for the pleasure of opening the sealed foil bags and not having moth holes opened in the tripod cover.

Im assuming performance will pale in comparison to my 20-60X Kowa but it will go well with my M1941, M40, M40A1 and be a lighter easier to set up scope than the full deal high power Kowa.

[M1Garandy]

There is a place online selling M42A1 covers for the M15 tripod for $12.95. The one I got was NOS. There was another online vendor selling NOS in the foil wrapper M164 scope cans as well.

Last lightly used late issue M49 I saw sell locally went for $100 with half a M15 tripod, no M42A1 case and a M164 can missing the shoulder strap.

[pmclaine]

Whats in the box?
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136451_zpsozjalmjw.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136451_zpsozjalmjw.jpg.html)
Oh, Just another box. Whats in this box?
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136452_zpstswsjbnj.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136452_zpstswsjbnj.jpg.html)
A Matrushka box just for paper? Whats under the paper?
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136453_zpsn2k3sbqd.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136453_zpsn2k3sbqd.jpg.html)
Awesome my tin foil hats are in!
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136454_zpseqvxcgbt.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136454_zpseqvxcgbt.jpg.html)
Bummer not hats.
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136455_zpseum7bzxy.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136455_zpseum7bzxy.jpg.html)
Looks official..
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136456_zpszlpr9suz.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136456_zpszlpr9suz.jpg.html)
The air smelled so 2013
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136457_zpsqt1a2q0s.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136457_zpsqt1a2q0s.jpg.html)

[pmclaine]

Must be a government job...
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136458_zpss25on25a.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136458_zpss25on25a.jpg.html)
Looks like it could poke your eye out...
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136459_zpslnfybcvh.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136459_zpslnfybcvh.jpg.html)
Hey a sausage holder...
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136460_zps9vrotjmt.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136460_zps9vrotjmt.jpg.html)
Smells like fresh paint
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136461_zpsffogdzfz.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136461_zpsffogdzfz.jpg.html)
What good will this be?
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136463_zps60lp3awb.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136463_zps60lp3awb.jpg.html)
For the NSN wonks...
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136464_zpsuwan7bfh.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136464_zpsuwan7bfh.jpg.html)
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af178/pmclaine/P8136462_zps6yfeu9lo.jpg (http://s1005.photobucket.com/user/pmclaine/media/P8136462_zps6yfeu9lo.jpg.html)

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

pmclaine:

Your inbox is full.

Interesting to see sealed contents. I'll have to check, but I believe the box my scope and accessories came in was of different dimensions.

Richard

[pmclaine]

In box cleaned up.

[oldtirediron]

In the 1990's DRMO auctions, I used to go to the one at Great Lakes , I bought all kinds of stuff there, Bought 2 Complete M-49's with cans and tripods with covers, one had "FBI Evidence" tape all over it with the serial plate removed, Also bought 6 USGI Small arms repairman's toolboxes for cheap, There were about 500 people there and it was an open bid auction, Bought them because the pallet weight was 1275 lbs, --All the tool boxes were banded quite heavily to the pallet and you couldn't open the drawers--Got them all for less than $150.00-- A couple of bidders were laughing at me for paying so much !! These toolboxes were packed full of USGI ordnance tools and gages, for the M-1 Rifle , M-1 Carbine and M-14--Jackpot ! Still selling stuff from those boxes today, regretably only a few headspace gages let and M-1 and M-14 Field Test bolts-- Still left and available !