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My buddy wants to sell me his M1 rifle that was Lend Leased to England. Its serial number is 327850. The barrel is dated 8-41. It has all of the early features of course and is correct. He bought it back in the 70's for his dad. Is this serial number listed in any records, SRS or otherwise?
Thanks.
Fred
Fred, start a new thread & ask "SRS check please on serial #XXX,YYY,ZZZ " in the title & one of the guys here will see it (sooner or later) & look it up for you. I hope this helps sir.
m1903rifle
01-29-2015, 03:57
My buddy wants to sell me his M1 rifle that was Lend Leased to England. Its serial number is 327850. The barrel is dated 8-41. It has all of the early features of course and is correct. He bought it back in the 70's for his dad. Is this serial number listed in any records, SRS or otherwise?
Thanks.
Fred
326909 11/18/46 RARITAN ARS Air Gage Test
327864 06/13/50 USMC - EL TORO
328269 08/23/46 SAA Barrel Fitting Test
326909 11/18/46 RARITAN ARS Air Gage Test
327864 06/13/50 USMC - EL TORO
328269 08/23/46 SAA Barrel Fitting Test
Thank you! I appreciate the information.
If it has British proofs on the barrel, visible with op rod retracted you could be fairly sure it is a lend lease. they were marked by the brits when they released them for sale in the 50's or 60's. There are some that have been seen with brit proofs between the front sight and rear ring on the gas cylinder.Don't know if they are the true lend lease guns. The 1941 dated guns are for sure lend lease.
Johnny P
02-06-2015, 07:43
It is very doubtful that a Lend-Lease M1 Rifle will show up in SRS. They went directly from Springfield Armory to England, and then came back to the U.S. commercial market.
This one shown below has the BNP on top of the receiver. Most look like a blob due to the hardness of the receiver.
I have one with the chamber proofs, and one with the proofs between the gas cylinder rings. Both are proofed identically. I have a feeling it didn't take long for the proof house to figure out it was easier to proof them out on the barrel.
http://i60.tinypic.com/10eq0yq.jpg
British proofs on the barrel have nothing to do with Lend/Lease. The BNP stamps are/were put on any milsurp sold through the assorted dealers working in England, by English law. They didn't come back to the commercial market either. Most of 'em sat in a warehouse because the Brits had no use for 'em. Some were used by RAF Regm't troopies guarding air fields long after the War, but most were returned to the U.S. Government.
If it doesn't have a painted red band around the front hand guard and stamped 7.62, it's not Lend/Lease at all. Only 38,001 between the serial number's of 300,000 and 700,000 were sent to England as Lend/Lease. So it might be, but not because of Brit proof stamps.
Johnny P
02-07-2015, 11:34
While it is true than any firearm made in a country other than England had to be commercially proofed before being sold, the Lend-Lease M1 Rifles speak for themselves. They are in a known serial number range, and they came back to the U.S. market in totally correct configuration for an early rifle. Most were still in excellent condition, and some were still in unissued condition. Same for the Model 1911A1 pistols Lend-Leased to England. Some came back in their original shipping boxes, and most were still in unissued condition.
If these correct and as new firearms weren't Lend-Lease, where else did they come from?
The painted red band had .30 not 7.62 painted on it. Most of those red bands were removed years ago as, at the time, they were just seen as detraction.
Also Sam Cummings of Interarmco (InterArms) of Alexandria, Va. did purchase quite a large number of the "Lend Lease" M1 rifles and they were imported to the U.S. It is believed by some that those first L.L. rifles purchased by Cummings were proofed in the barrel date area, behind the op rod, and are without a doubt L.L. Later rifles proofed between the rings of the gas cylinder may or may not be L.L. They were sold on the civilian market starting in about 1959.
2975629757
Sorry about the small picture of the "Winfield Arms" ad. Not sure how to post a larger and clearer. It does state in the ad which appeared in a 1959 edition of GUNS Magazine, that the rifles are British proofed but makes no mention of them being L.L. Though it is known that they were.
Johnny P
02-08-2015, 07:09
In the final result it doesn't matter if they were Lend-Lease or not, but the condition is what counts. The British proofed rifles were shunned for many years because of the proofs, but then collectors realized that the rifles were early production and in totally original and excellent condition. An original and excellent condition M1 Rifle from the same period without the proofs will command more money, but they rarely come on the market.
Almost 40,000 Model 1911A1 pistols were Lend-Leased to England, with shipments continuing until within few weeks of the war in Europe ending. Virtually all of these that came back to the U.S. were in unissued condition, and some not even being unpacked until they were proofed for sale. The first of the pistols were released in 1952 and have a stamp indicating they were released by the British government. With the change in the proof law in 1955 this stamp was discontinued. Some contend that the 1911A1 pistols without the release date have no proof of being Lend-Lease, but again it is the condition of these pistols that counts rather than their Lend-Lease status. The same question applies as to where did these new pistols come from if they were not Lend-Lease?
Yep, my buddy told me that he'd removed the red paint from the stock or forearm when he'd bought it. Oh well... It is what it is.
da gimp,
Please tell me what "SRS check please on serial #XXX,YYY,ZZZ " means...what does this mean? thanks
Here is part of a page from a Springfield Research Service Newsletter which is from the US Martial Arms Collector
(subscription $35 per year)
this page shows some serial numbers of early M1 rifles sent to the 29th plus another
M1 that was sent to Winchester29935
RCS...are you replying to My post?
Griff Murphey
02-22-2015, 08:39
Just a side "random thought." During the Falklands war in 1982 vast numbers of US .50 Cal. Browning HMGs were cracked out of storage. The British mounted them on everything and used them to great effect in ground combat and against Argentine A-4s and other aircraft. I can't say for sure that they were "Lend Lease" but I think they dated at least as far back as the 50's.
Johnny P
02-23-2015, 06:27
Lend-Lease ended almost as soon as WWII did. September 1945 I believe.
Da Gimp is telling Fred to start a new thread with a SRS search question because some people key in on those. SRS = Springfield Research Service.. If he lists the serial number someone with the published books other than the company/group that owns the rights may look the SN up to see if it is a match in any of the 4 volumes. If there is, he may want to pay SRS to see if there is more information available other than where the firearm may have been assigned on the particular day the information was recorded by SRS. Some people want the written confirmation for NM firearms, etc., to validate or confirm a snapshot of the firearms history. I hope this answers part of your question.
da gimp,
Please tell me what "SRS check please on serial #XXX,YYY,ZZZ " means...what does this mean? thanks
m1903rifle
02-24-2015, 06:43
I saw a near mint LL Garand at a local gun show last week end. Still had the red band around the fore end with the black .30. Very strong GHS cartouche with crossed cannons. Appeared to be un-fired ( bright bolt face and very bright and strong bore ). In other words, a very, very, nice Garand. Although I didn't have $3,800.00, could a very nice one such as this be worth that much?
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