WW2 cartouches

[RCS]

Some photos of original WW2 Winchester and Springfield cartouches, except one is fake !

Can you spot the fake cartouche ?

[TDP0311]

Two?

[mack]

WRA/WB

Don't ever buy stocks with cartouches. All cartouches may be fake.

[Rick B]

Never say no to buying marked wood. Learn what you are looking for and buy from reputable folks. Rick B.

[RCS]

Good post and photo Rick Maybe the stock doc will add some knowledge

[RCS]

Mack, The Winchester W.R.A. W.B. cartouche is original and came from the same place that the stocks in Rick's photo came from in Wisconsin

[2111]

# 3 GHS ??

[StockDoc]

Yeah, I will add something about the firewood, since you asked. According to Rick's those stocks were contaminated by Chicken Fecal matter and urine, that is why the others left them there. They are contaminated never tried to sell the stocks.

As for the marking, I never make a comment on a Cartouche without having the stock in front of me, do to all the fakes. Even Rick in his article, says you can make a judgment from a photograph. The cartouche can be a real genie, but the stock could be repaired and the seller trying to pass it off as an unrepaired. To many variables then just a cartouche to make a stock genuine. Me or my clients will touch repaired stocks, to many genuine ones out they.

Besides, I don't have my Duff's Cartouche book I made up, I am In D C for a client.

Thanks for asking

[RCS]

You have to change your name to Stock Mouth instead of Stock Doc. Since I have been involved with a lot of the barn wood since the 80's and there is estimates that run from 5K to 10k to the number of stocks that were stored there, not all were "hit" by the chickens more like 5% if even that many. I bought over 100 no-trap stocks alone in 1987 and none of these were "contaminated" plus all the carbine stocks were in excellent condition.

It is easy for you to bend the barnwood story around to fit your needs and cover your ignorance

[StockDoc]

Good for you, glad you are happy with you purchase. I can only go by what was published, and that they were abandoned.

[rkohut]

The middle one, #3, is a fairly good fake.

[StockDoc]

WRA/WB

Don't ever buy stocks with cartouches. All cartouches may be fake.

that picture is distorted, the W lean toward the front with the B leaning to the butt (just like the Warner Brothers logo)and the box is not square in the pic, probably a cell phone, or maybe my screen on my laptop.

But, my vote goes to #2. Only because the coloration of the stock, has the appearance of the Korean stocks

[RCS]

Joe and rkohut were correct, fake SA GHS stamp by Terry Smith (UT) from the 1989-90 period,he also stamped a few WRA WB no trap stocks that were sold from the Chicago area.
Very difficult to detect the fake WB stamps but the answer is in the crossed cannon stamp.

Photo shows another angle of the WRA RS stamp, these stocks run over 3K without any problem now. The WRA WB is the rare production trap door stock as most WB stocks were no-trap and conversions (also from the barnwood). Number 5 is a Nov 1941 GHS from a Lend Lease rifle

[Rick B]

Thanks for sharing RCS. Rick B

[dryheat]

What's so scary about chicken poop?

[Rick B]

What's so scary about chicken poop?


Agreed and some folks just like to put Doo Doo in the game without real knowledge. Rick B

http://imageshack.com/a/img845/7029/7i1a.jpg

[StockDoc]

What's so scary about chicken poop?

I guess you will have to ask the peep's that abandoned them, I think it Jim at Dupage. My thought is he did not want the baggage or the time it would take to de contaminate them. That could damage the cartouches.

but since you asked:

http://www.idph.state.il.us/public/hb/hbb&bdrp.htm

[Rick B]

For the Record. All of these stocks are clean and just cracked or broken pieces that back in the 70's no one had knowledge on how to fix nor cared as they were weeding through for the unbroken stuff. No where in any article does it state stocks were covered in chicken poop but that some of the stains found were thought to be blood when in fact they were from raccoon or other animals.

No one went back because not only did the figure the barn was torn down now but the roads are all numbered road so after some time no one remembered how to get back there. you have 1st street. County line one. 1 East, West North South and even more so in order to get there you had to know where you were going long before GPS.

SO I say again Doo Doo in the game by a less knowledgeable person who appears to want to follow RCS and Me around trying so hard to defame. Rick B

[StockDoc]

For the Record. All of these stocks are clean and just cracked or broken pieces that back in the 70's no one had knowledge on how to fix nor cared as they were weeding through for the unbroken stuff. No where in any article does it state stocks were covered in chicken poop but that some of the stains found were thought to be blood when in fact they were from raccoon or other animals.

No one went back because not only did the figure the barn was torn down now but the roads are all numbered road so after some time no one remembered how to get back there. you have 1st street. County line one. 1 East, West North South and even more so in order to get there you had to know where you were going long before GPS.

SO I say again Doo Doo in the game by a less knowledgeable person who appears to want to follow RCS and Me around trying so hard to defame. Rick B

I posted the State of Illinois, so if you like to argue with them, which yo apparently like to do, argue with them.

I don't know you, nor do I want to, or RCS. You have argued with every post that I have made. And you and RCS have been wrong on every post you replied to. So give up and try and be civil for a change.

I did read that you have been ill, you might want to tell the Doctors about the contaminated stocks before it is to late, good luck.

[StockDoc]

For the Record. All of these stocks are clean and just cracked or broken pieces that back in the 70's no one had knowledge on how to fix nor cared as they were weeding through for the unbroken stuff. No where in any article does it state stocks were covered in chicken poop but that some of the stains found were thought to be blood when in fact they were from raccoon or other animals.

No one went back because not only did the figure the barn was torn down now but the roads are all numbered road so after some time no one remembered how to get back there. you have 1st street. County line one. 1 East, West North South and even more so in order to get there you had to know where you were going long before GPS.

SO I say again Doo Doo in the game by a less knowledgeable person who appears to want to follow RCS and Me around trying so hard to defame. Rick B

I posted the State of Illinois, so if you like to argue with them, which yo apparently like to do, argue with them.

I don't know you, nor do I want to, or RCS. You have argued with every post that I have made. And you and RCS have been wrong on every post you replied to. So give up and try and be civil for a change.

I did read that you have been ill, you might want to tell the Doctors about the contaminated stocks before it is to late, good luck.

[2111]

StockDoc - your really pissing in the wind.

[2111]

StockDoc - your really p-ing in the wind.

[Latigo 1]

I don't know you, but Rick B. was the original stock doc and has been known for many years by that name. I don't know why you would take a name that has already been used by another person for many years. He and RCS have seen more early, and rare stocks than anyone else I know of, and pictures and information from both have been used by at least two of the most prominant authors of M1 Garand books. To say they are wrong about everything leads me to believe that you are the one with little to contribute.

[Rick B]

Thanks guys and sadly anyone can type and post even when their only agenda is to try and knock some down or try to defame. His constant personal attacks are getting old and that got him a permanent ban on CMP's forums. I am lost why he posted anything to the State of Illinois but more power to him. He even tried to start on other gun forums by following me around. It is creepy to have fans like this. Rick B

http://imageshack.com/a/img536/4474/L2TJtO.png

[StockDoc]

well rick, it shows never. been on the CMP forum, never followed you around. And the internet has tons of stock docs, do an internet search. This is the first forum I signed up to after retiring.

Besides, if rick is the stock doc, why didn't he take that name. Oh well, I refuse to let you people try and control me.

Thanks for the laugh, that guy that you think I am really has got into your head, watch out for those infectious diseases, Rick.

[StockDoc]

I don't know you, but Rick B. was the original stock doc and has been known for many years by that name. I don't know why you would take a name that has already been used by another person for many years. He and RCS have seen more early, and rare stocks than anyone else I know of, and pictures and information from both have been used by at least two of the most prominant authors of M1 Garand books. To say they are wrong about everything leads me to believe that you are the one with little to contribute.

have no idea who you are either, I have been known as the stock doc in my area for 35 yrs and doing woodworking for 40. And I said they had been wrong on all their comments to my postings.

But I really think that you are really Rick b, or RCS using another posting name.

[StockDoc]

Not really if you read rick's article, you will find that he is full of the stuff that contaminated his stocks. If you get my drift.

[bd1]

I don't know if James Brown initiated calling himself the Godfather of Soul or his fans and entertainment media did. But either way it stuck and became a global trademark for one man and his public work. Rick B specializes in U.S. articles and work, so maybe he's not global but he's sure nationwide. Da boyz in da hood would say he be da man, if you get my drift.

[StockDoc]

I don't know if James Brown initiated calling himself the Godfather of Soul or his fans and entertainment media did. But either way it stuck and became a global trademark for one man and his public work. Rick B specializes in U.S. articles and work, so maybe he's not global but he's sure nationwide. Da boyz in da hood would say he be da man, if you get my drift.

http://shop.stockdocusa.com/
http://www.stockdocusa.com/
http://www.bobandrocco.com/stock-doc.html
http://stockdoc0.tripod.com/stockdocsite/
http://thestockdr.com/about.php
http://thestockdr.com/

my favorite: http://rivertonvet.com/

Rick b is not even listed in Google search, if you ain't on google you ain't s..t

I rest my case

[Rick B]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS362US370&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=rick+borecky+stock+doc

[Rick B]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS362US370&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=rick+borecky+stock+doc

[Rick B]

https://www.google.com/search?q=rick+borecky+stock+doc+site:forums.thecmp .org#q=rick+borecky+stock+doc+site:forums.thecmp.o rg&start=10

[StockDoc]

we are talking "StockDoc"

[StockDoc]

so leave me alone about my screen name, you have no basis for your harassment

[Rick B]

You have been defending why you took the name and tried to show how it was never used for me. I was named this by a customer way back and it has been used for quite awhile by others to refer to me as shown above on "GOOGLE".

Fact My name is found to have this moniker more than any you have shown.

Fact I have the earliest dated use of it on the internet being 2002 adn this was a carry over from the sales and resurrection of that board in 2002.. https://www.gunandgame.com/members/stock-doc.204/

Fact I see no where on the internet or the world your name Gary associated with doing stock work and this name. I can go on but do not want to school you to much on the subject you tried to use against me "again" on this forum and the CMP. I am not upset by you trying to be me or using the Stock Doc name at all. Others made mention and you came back with a poor example so I wanted to show you somethings you neglected to see.

My issues are with you following me around trying to argue anything I do to help others. Rick B

[StockDoc]

I am convinced you are "nutz". Keep telling you my name is not Gary. but your OCD keeps trying to associate me to someone who outed you or something. Would be funny except it is very sad, good luck with your demons. Some find AA a help.

[Rick B]

And please stop editing your post over and over again. I tire of your changing the post as you feel you need to in order to look good. Say it and leave it.

[RCS]

Rick, the Stockmouth is just a fool with time on his hands, nothing to contribute - just wants to upset people. You ask him to show his work (based on 35 years) and do you see it ! doubt you will see it but you will see another fool answer to this post

[1mark]

What I cannot figure out is stockdoc never shows any of his work. If in fact he is a"Stocdoc" where is his work?

[StockDoc]

1. RCS- I have never seen your work either, show it or keep your mouth shut, thank you. Besides it seems your mouth is plenty big, bet it's big enough to put you foot in.

2. 1mark-unlike rick, I am not advertising for work, have plenty to do, only gave valid pointers on removing grime, the safe way from a stock. When I am looking for work I will be sure to post some pictures, but the locals keep me busy enough, and after all I am retired and enjoying life.

3. Dick B- if you wanted the Stockdoc name you should of taken it. If it's yours, or were you not smart enough to think of that

What repair Garand stocks, they crack for a reason, and I don't hide cracks from buyers, that is dishonest. And put a glossy finish on a Military Veteran, unless it was suppose to have a glossy finish, that would be a terrible thing to do. I believe they call that "humping a stock".

[StockDoc]

dick and rcs, you both need spell and grammar check on your computers, or maybe need to just press the f2 button to turn it on. I know it would make some of us happy.

[psteinmayer]

Most of us follow this forum to learn something... or obtain help... or talk about issues with our favorite guns. Reading this thread is like listening to my sisters argue over a pair of shoes: Although it's entertaining, ultimately, I feel like my head is about to explode!

[StockDoc]

you are very right, and good analogy about sisters and shoes, or children in the sandbox. Can't speak for those kids, but this one will grow up, thanks for pointing that out.

[mack]

Over the past 13-15 years, stocks and cartouches have likely generated more controversy on this forum than anything with the possible exception of the question of who killed JFK or where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. And just about with the same results since no one can tell what a correct answer would be.

This is one of the reasons that the original Culver's board was changed to a more controlled forum. People spent their time listening to people bicker and members slowly drifted away to other forums and knowledgeable members quit in favor those other places where bickering was less of an issue.

Time for someone to close this thread and let the world go on with most important business.

[Rick B]

Mack, that is why Bruce Canfield came to me to help him on the originality of markings for the Garand in his new book. I have so much time in them but naturally you will have some that want o argue to put Doo Doo in the game and try to make you look like you do not know what you are talking about. I am one of the few to have stayed like RCS as we wont allow less informed mess with good wholesome help and knowledge. I stand by my verification's and have more knowledge in this are than anyone to date that I know of. It is a heart felt passion for me not a pat on the back. Rick B

[TDP0311]

Wow, clearly we should have just dropped tons of chicken **** all over the Axis lines, it would have rendered the wood on their rifles useless and their weapons would have had to have been discarded immediately!

It sounds like this barn filled with stocks was years before my time, but if I had the chance to crawl through a foot of chicken waste to examine some USGI stocks I'd do it buck nekkid if I had to!

[StockDoc]

well, the German and Japanese both had sanitary problems in their respective theaters. Many think that these problems contributed to their loss in the war.

Here is another site that talks about the diseases carried by Chickens. http://www.livestrong.com/article/91095-diseases-caused-chickens/

This city boy has no idea what would be the way to clean to stocks without damaging the cartouches, but I would not like to open myself up to a possible lawsuit, if someone became sick. I do realize the different in thought between Rural America and the city, we won't touch things without a biohazard suit and Country boys "do it buck nekkid".

Those stocks in the example are quite nice, but I would chance it, have to much living to do.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/61646.php

[Rick B]

I feel so sorry for you that you have to keep trying to start trouble and make assumptions about something you know nothing about especially what is on these stocks. You are edging slander to my business with falsehoods being spread about my business.

I also feel sorry that being the stock expert you claim to be that you have no idea how to clean a stock and save the markings .

I also feel sorry that you have to keep editing your posts.

http://imageshack.com/a/img820/1056/iqg8.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img841/263/u9ioz.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img842/1235/4wm0.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img844/3189/s8zs.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img802/5111/ef6m.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img191/6428/4ehh.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img850/134/iah7.jpg

[TMB]

Agreed and some folks just like to put Doo Doo in the game without real knowledge. Rick B

http://imageshack.com/a/img845/7029/7i1a.jpg

Those are cool!! Have anymore pictures of the trench art? Are you selling any of them?

[RCS]

stock mouth and any other experts, notice anything special about the WRA stock in Rick's photo ?

[Rick B]

TMB,
I have over 100 with Trench Art and none are for sale at this time. Here is a short video showing a few. I am keeping most under wraps at this time with Edward Tinker putting them in a book he is doing on Trench Art. Rick B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBG_hMpuMx4

[StockDoc]

Stop it, just stop it, haven't laughed this hard in a long time, the new Dumb and Dumber, and even have to poop jokes to go with it. Thanks.

[TMB]

TMB,
I have over 100 with Trench Art and none are for sale at this time. Here is a short video showing a few. I am keeping most under wraps at this time with Edward Tinker putting them in a book he is doing on Trench Art. Rick B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBG_hMpuMx4

Cool he's putting them in a book. Are you going to do a book on cartouches?

[Latigo 1]

stock mouth and any other experts, notice anything special about the WRA stock in Rick's photo ?
It is an early GHD with the 1" box.

[RCS]

Thanks Dave, glad to know there are knowledgeable M1 collectors around, seems like the stock mouth missed this one

[StockDoc]

here is something better then putting up bad pictures,

http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm#M1 Garand-Stock Marking Identification Guide

BTW, Dupage Trading has some Trench Art stocks, no pictures though. Since someone is holding on to theirs.

[Rick B]

here is something better then putting up bad pictures,



What in the HELL are you talking about? Please go away we are really tired of your garbage. Some people want to learn Gary.

[1mark]

Stock doc if you are such an expert PLEASE post some pictures of you work or a web site that has your work. I would love to see some.

[StockDoc]

has been answered already. Besides, no such thing as an expert, and would never call myself one.

besides, all you followers are mad about was that I got the stockdoc name and you know, I am keeping it.

1mark,dick, sob lets see you work.

[1mark]

Well Stockdoc if you want us take you seriously than show use your work of references. You talk a lot but never post anything to back up you claims.

[StockDoc]

Strange neither do you guys, besides like I said before I don't post clients firearms, how about you? Either way, I really don't care what you think, I get all my business through referrals and have to much to do as it is.

[Rick B]

http://imageshack.com/a/img52/7033/009zdj.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img718/1467/01112p.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img191/5144/npm22.jpg

[Rick B]

http://imageshack.com/a/img84/9008/picture844.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img204/7810/picture654f.jpg

[Tony-in-NH]

Here is another trench art stock to look at.
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr18/Tony-in-NH/Inland%2012-42%20Carbine/004.jpg