View Full Version : WRA Follower
Marty T.
05-30-2014, 05:50
What is the approximate earliest date for usage of the 13 marked WRA follower? I have a mid to late Jan. that needs a correct follower and having trouble locating an unmarked, but have found the 13 marked. Need to know if the 13 would be used in that time frame or if mine is too early. Thanks.
What is the approximate earliest date for usage of the 13 marked WRA follower? I have a mid to late Jan. that needs a correct follower and having trouble locating an unmarked, but have found the 13 marked. Need to know if the 13 would be used in that time frame or if mine is too early. Thanks.
Mid to late Jan of 1945? Then you want a follower for a Win-13? Then, a no serif 13 marked follower should be correct. The order for latter 1944 to end of production in 1945 is (consensus opinion?): "Winchester used 11 (serif) marked followers with a punch mark for a short time late summer 1944. (Punch mark on the slide and follower as well as the bottom of the breach end.)" To the next follower: "Winchester's late production used the late style follower. They were marked with a san serif 13."
Anyone know why the Winchester parts have the punch mark (the remnants of hardness testing)?
Also, why do the Winchester rear sight knobs have open arrows (other than to help us identify them)?
Marty T.
06-01-2014, 05:13
Here's why the question. Mine is not a Win-13. It is just before they started those. So did the 13 follower come before the Win-13 rec. or after? Thanks.
I thought that serif marked revision 11 followers were Springfield only, is there any documentation that would indicate Winchester using the serif marked revision 11 follower ? Many collectors have looked for the evasive revision 11 follower without serifs, without finding one - maybe someone has a photo ?
I thought that serif marked revision 11 followers were Springfield only, is there any documentation that would indicate Winchester using the serif marked revision 11 follower ? Many collectors have looked for the evasive revision 11 follower without serifs, without finding one - maybe someone has a photo ?
Yes, there are pictures---lots of them, in M1 GARAND PHOTO ESSAY by Larry Babcock (Google it).
I am not aware of a sans serif revision 11 follower.
I sure would not quote Babcocks work as documentation, - he might even have fake stuff and not really know about it. I am sure you could do better than Babcock as a recommended source ? and don't use Harrison either.
Here's why the question. Mine is not a Win-13. It is just before they started those. So did the 13 follower come before the Win-13 rec. or after? Thanks.
From the consecutive (no omissions from Mar 44) build sheets of Winchesters in DUFF's Red book:
Mar 44 ---- early, un-marked
Aug 44 ---- 11
Oct 44 ---- 13
Nov 44 ---- late, un-marked
Apr 45 (Win-13) ---- late, un-marked
Jun 45 (Win-13) ---- 13
You know how it goes, if you asked 10 Winchester experts, you would probably get three different answers (see Aug, Oct, Nov, above) . The good news, you get to decide for your rifle.
For even more clarity contact "Billy Pyle <garandstand@academicplanet.com>". He is very nice and should get back to you in a few days.
The Aug 44 which is serial number 2481387 is the only example and could well be in error. Charles Redfield (who provides the line drawings for Pyle's newsletter - as long as your name dropping) told me that he has never found a Winchester revision 11 follower -without serifs and without the BEVELS
I sure would not quote Babcocks work as documentation, - he might even have fake stuff and not really know about it. I am sure you could do better than Babcock as a recommended source ? and don't use Harrison either.
Dear Kind RCS,
He asked for possible pictures. I answered. Information is just that. It is maybe good, bad, correct or incorrect. I know there are unintentional mistakes in his photo essay book---there are mistakes in all books. There maybe even "fake stuff" that he does not know about. If he did, he would most likely remove or correct the information. Please feel free to add constructive suggestions about his work (we might all benefit from your input). I do know the pictures are real, even if they are of "fake stuff". Nice clear pictures, that for the most part, clear up (for some) those confusing word descriptions.
"I am sure you could do better than Babcock as a recommended source ?" Maybe I can, and maybe not, obviously that is for others to contemplate. I did make another recommendation to another question in this thread, I hope I did not offend.
Please RCS, do a "better than Babcock as a recommended source", and give us your top three or four sources for good reliable pictures. I, for one, will use them for added information to consider.
Best Regards,
Stan, I recommend you purchase Harrisons M1 book and study it like a bible - it will improve you knowledge
I sure would not quote Babcocks work as documentation, - he might even have fake stuff and not really know about it. I am sure you could do better than Babcock as a recommended source ? and don't use Harrison either.
Couldn't agree more. He is a plagiarist also.
The M1 Garand - by Bruce Canfield
The M1 Garand World War II - by Scott Duff
Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine book - by Bruce N. Canfield
Bad info is worse than no info
Marty,
To answer your question if it has not been done so, a non serifed 13 would be ok in your late rifle prior to WIN-13 usage.
Marty T.
06-02-2014, 08:51
Marty,
To answer your question if it has not been done so, a non serifed 13 would be ok in your late rifle prior to WIN-13 usage.
As usual on here, a lot of good info comes with any question. It had not been pointedly answered but in a roundabout way had. But yours is the direct answer that I was looking for. I just haven't found whether the 13 would be good or not. Thanks, will get the 13 ordered and finish this job.
Stan, I recommend you purchase Harrisons M1 book and study it like a bible - it will improve you knowledge
RCS
Harrison's M1 book? The same Harrison from this quote of your previous post: "I am sure ---------- as a recommended source ? and don't use Harrison either."
Should I study it for good information to use, or for information---("and don't use Harrison either")---that I should not use?
Best Regards
Couldn't agree more. He is a plagiarist also.
Rick B,
A plagiarist also? Did not know that! Is that something you heard, or do you have first hand knowledge? If you do have personal knowledge, please give us some examples. Would be nice to know who he copied without permission. Any examples of plagiarism and mistakes he has, would be good to know. Thanks!
The M1 Garand - by Bruce Canfield
The M1 Garand World War II - by Scott Duff
Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine book - by Bruce N. Canfield
Rick B,
Thank you for the suggestions! I have two of them, and I will look for the M1 GARAND - by Bruce Canfield. Does it have different and additional information than his other book you recommended, or is it a lot of the same pictures and information? Thanks again!
Bad info is worse than no info
Orlando,
Hope it is OK to respectively disagree?:) (Or, to agree to disagree.) Is it (bad) info on followers, or (bad) info on pictures that is worse? (Or, you can substitute any item you like for followers/pictures.)
Some were taught that all info (good, neutral, or bad) is important. Bad info on followers or in pictures, at the extreme, would mean that all possible (any) follower or pictures of them could be recommended as acceptable!? No? And, no info, on all possible (any) follower or picture, (that is, no information for or against any follower), would mean the same, that any follower could be recommended as acceptable (or accepted)? No? Yes, I know, if there is no info on any follower or picture at all, how could one be recommended? Well, you acquire a pile of random followers or pictures of the same, and then randomly pick one. So, any follower that is picked is acceptable. Is this not basically the same? BAD info is the SAME as NO info!? Not worse!?:)
Good info would be best! No? If we just had a "Supreme Decider/Authority", then any (and all) info they gave would be the final good answer(s)! Do you have a Supreme Decider on followers, or on pictures, or on----? But, that would be boring---just like utopia---we would have no freedom to think and CHOSE FOR OURSELVES---with the best info (good, neutral, or bad) we had at that time. (If all we had was the final good answer, how would we know---if there was not some bad info for comparison:)) FREEDOM!!!!
It would be nice if we were open to all info, have an open mind, be willing to consider other opinions, and maybe--just possibly---change our opinion on followers, pictures, books, or----?!! NO, of course not, not when it comes to the M1 GARAND!!! :)
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