Introducing the dragonfly krag charger ...

[RickM]

Posting links to two videos of reloads preformed yesterday in a vintage match. First time using these in a match setting and they preformed flawlessly. One video is prone one is sitting. I would also like to say that the krag being fired is the pristine one i posted a bit back and she was awesome.... shooting at 439-6x out ofa possible 500 and was the overall top shooter in standing with 90 of 100 possible. I believe i can better that as i get familiar with her.

However that is not the reason for the post. This is to let you see the charger in action, gauge interest in members obtaining some for themselves and ask what you honest opinion on value is. The prices on the hens teeth i have found is prohibitive and unreasonable i think. Give me your opinion we may be able to produce them for sale soon.

Again videos of in use and a photo of the chargers is attached.

Take care

http://youtu.be/RWJoZQta02U

http://youtu.be/XFGoJ64nors

[madsenshooter]

You tube links are private, but we seen em before, birds eye view in some cases.

[RickM]

How do i make public?

[RickM]

Fixed i think they are now public

[JimF]

Pretty slick reload . . . .

How come you don't use the sling in sitting or prone? --Jim

[RickM]

I do in highpower for some reason im just not keen on putting the pressure on a 113yr old baby like her although i know it will tighten my groups.

[Dick Hosmer]

Given that the sling swivel is attached to the barrel band, I cannot see ANY possible harm in using it. The swivel screw should hold (assuming diameter of .1875" and tensile strength of mild steel at 25,000psi) at least 690 pounds in shear - I seriously doubt that any shooting position could apply as much as one hundred. Have you ever tried keeping hold of the bolt, and firing with your middle finger, as the Scandinavian shooters do? Also, just a thought, but had you considered placing your charger(s) in some sort of 'holder', immediately adjacent to the magazine - it looks like you have to make a rather awkward (taking the butt off your shoulder) reach for them. Looks like a lot of fun, and certainly quicker than fooling with loose rounds! Thanks for sharing.

[RickM]

Thanks for the input and ideas dick i appreciate it. I will give it a shot though i will probably have to go with a leather sling. Im not sure how to do it with the tropical mills i have on it though that is a minor change. I have tried working the bolt in the manner you describe but im simply not adept enough to try it in a match YET

Rick

[Parashooter]

Pulling the trigger with a spare digit is a good trick for events where speed is essential. Most vintage military rifle competitions in the USA, however, allow plenty of time for normal hand position, generally 70 to 80 seconds for a 10-shot string. The person in the video would do better to spend some time learning to manipulate the bolt in prone position without removing buttstock from shoulder, an action accomplished very readily with the smooth-working Krag.

FWIW, I see no good reason for anyone making chargers of this design to display the kind of horrible workmanship shown in the photo accompanying the first post on this topic. I really wish those who employ my design would exercise enough care to produce something both functional and reasonably attractive. I know from experience this can be done with little effort and no special tools. Some examples from my production, in brass, copper, and aluminum -

http://i61.tinypic.com/313kpeg.jpg

And what, pray tell, has any of this to do with a dragonfly???

[madsenshooter]

I've got loading without taking the rifle off the shoulder down pretty good. Open the gate, tip the rifle to the left so that the charger is near vertical. The rounds come out of the charger straight into the magazine rather than making a 90 degree turn transitioning from charger to magazine. I hold the charger with middle finger and thumb, strip with the index finger. I smack the rear of the gate with the heel of my hand after lifting the charger clear. To better fit my hand and put my index finger in the proper place, I had to take a little off the forward inside edge of the slot of the charger Paul made for me. Just a touch, it's like #24 in parashooter's pic above with a bit more removed. I've been practicing a little at using the middle finger on the trigger too, any time gained during loading and bolt manipulation is more aiming time. The hard part is making sure you use the time for that. Some of the matches I shoot still use the 60 seconds for a 10 shot string. It gets exciting then, but is still easy to do. I've got long arms, so I can get in a position with my head far enough back on the stock that the bolt just touches my nose when all the way back. That way I don't have to lift my head off the stock when I work the bolt.

[psteinmayer]

I believe the chargers that I've made and sold are well made Para... Of course, your design is brilliant! I've had some wonderful comments anyway :)

In case anyone is interested... I still have them available, and I'm expecting some more brass to arrive today.

[RickM]

First para i will attempt to answer your post diplomatically without my initial reaction of kiss my ass.... the rifke comes out of my shoukder for a couple reasons.... first and foremost with my head position the bolt strikes my glasses and as i have to now wear glasses for everyday i cannot afford to replace them regularly because i scratch them to hell and back with the bolt. Second due to multiple shoulder and back surgeries i have had to modify my positioning and handling in order to continue to enjoy the activity as i continue to do so. Not to toot my horn however I am a regular participant in various styles of shooting from vintage to high power to pistol semi auto to revolver in addition to being a firearms instructor. I have learned that when i see something confusing to me in someones mechanics it occassionally behooves me to ask why rather than shove my foot in my mouth as you so eloquently did right off the bat by bitching about positioning with no knowledge of the reasons behind. Making suggestions is one thing climbing i someones saddle and telling them how to ride their own horse before asking is something else.

Now as for the look of the charger which you are unhappy with i would have no idea who designed what however the point of the post was to show a reload which unless i am just flat stupid the video did show and give people an idea of what is being used. And additionally it was to give others a chance to obtain some for themselves if they wanted some as i dont recall your highness jumping to help when i asked about purchasing some in the past. Unless it was you that sent me an offer to sell some for 75$ or so and i dont think it was. However thinking that was a ridiculous price i spoke with a friend who is much more mechanically gifted than i and he came up with what you see in the photo. The ones in the photo are the test ones i am using not ones which would be cleaned and polished so sorry to offend your precious sensibilities. And to answer the last question dragonfly is a nickname my friend uses

Now that i have rambled enough.... thank you beyond thanks to everyone with genuine input and a hearty kma to anyone else.

[Rick B]

I agree Rick M and Para was absolutely wrong for the way he stuck his nose up at your enjoyment of the Krag rifle and how to make loading a bit easier on your own. It really made no sense why he acted this way and I find it disgusting and hateful. Rick B

[RickM]

I do have to apologize at my reply however. I work graves and my respondometer is not connected at this time of the morning. I do apologize for being offensive in my reply post.

Also to be very clear. I am not looking to make money or get rich with these things. I and my friend just terribky love running our krags and i just assumed others were in the same position reloadwise. I got excited finding out that even with the small physical limitations ihave i now have a way to reload my krag to the effect of being able to compete against speedier, easier to load rifles such as the m1, ar and others we were running against.

Rick

[psteinmayer]

I wasn't looking to get rich with the ones I made and sold either. I just covered my costs (including a small amount for the labor at the insistence of my wife). Otherwise, I would have sold them for a heck of a lot more than the $35 each (shipped) that I'm charging.

[madsenshooter]

Function is what really matters. The one I cobbled together is quite ugly, but very functional.

[Dick Hosmer]

That was a really uncharacteristic post from parashooter, and, unless I am wrong I believe he has his own physical challenges. Still kinda rude and presumptuous.

That said, I have a question about the Norwegian chargers. They must have some sort of "automatic cammed release" (for want of any better term) since I can discern NO thumb-push, and yet I've never seen a loose round fall out during the near-instantaneous reload.

As to the time allowed in U.S. matches, there may well be enough for normal bolt manipulation, but, for my money, every second spent manipulating/handling something is a second which is unavailable for acquiring the target, and squeezing off the next shot.

[madsenshooter]

I think some of the Norwegian models are spring loaded Dick. The rounds are held in by a lever which is pushed or squeezed to release them.

[RickM]

The only problem i have found with these so far and it has only happened on dummy rounds so i dont know if lack of powder causes a problem due to weight or not but if i dont tilt the rifle forward the rounds sometimes get out of order and the next wont feed. Easy remedy when you realize it is open the gate and slap it closed with rifle tilted forward and it seems to fix itself. Again hasnt happened with live rounds and im new to the krag shooting thing when it gets beyond hunting with a sported one.

I cant wait to sling up and see what happens

[Parashooter]

I believe the chargers that I've made and sold are well made Para...

The examples I've seen of your production are indeed nicely done - and probably worth two or three times what you're charging. It's good to know there's still pride in craftsmanship to be found here.

RickM - I understand crude prototypes - and alternative positions/procedures for the physiologically-impaired. But let's add some descriptive material when we post images/videos of such things - so novices (and critics) don't think that's how it's normally done.

If cartridges are loaded to regulation length, the angled front and back walls of the US Krag magazine will automatically align their rims correctly for smooth feeding. Shorter cartridges require added care for rim positioning.

Dick - The Norwegian charger design features an external pivoted and arched flat spring serving as both retainer and release. After positioning the mouth of the device in the open magazine, one presses the center of the arched spring which pivots the retaining tab out of the way so an internal spring behind the follower can "inject" rounds into the magazine.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z479/minuteman1774/Krag%20Speed%20Loader/100_2480.jpg

I'm getting a bit creaky and wheezy, but nothing I'd call "physical challenges". Wonder what gives you that impression?

[Dick Hosmer]

I'm getting a bit creaky and wheezy, but nothing I'd call "physical challenges". Wonder what gives you that impression?

Shows how one can be misled by a nom-de-plume, and in this PC world, one doesn't like to push, but I had thought you might be one of those unfortunates who must shoot from a wheelchair. Glad to find out I was mistaken. Thanks for the info on the Norwegian charger.

[madsenshooter]

Rick M., Parashooter pointed out the magazine's ability to sort the rims into the proper order, it's all in the angle. In playing with the charger I have from Paul, I found that just the right angle at the top of the charger does the same thing within the charger. Once I got them at the proper angle I could feel the rounds shifting around to align the rims, and peering inside with a light and my reading glasses on verified that they had. All I had to do to make sure the rounds stacked at that angle was pinch the charger at the top where the shoulder of the case is, so that the rounds came up about 1/8 less. My very ugly charger is open at the top, so I can see that I've loaded the rounds with the rim in the proper order. I wouldn't want to pack my open top charger around loaded as one can do with Parashooter's design, the top round sometimes manages to get past the pop rivet that holds it in place.. Perhaps next go round I'll combine some of the virtues of both.