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View Full Version : What model M16 is this based on the pictures.



Johnny in Texas
02-15-2014, 11:05
Recent acquisition by Texas Sheriff Office near port O'connor

It looks like an early upper with an A1 bolt carrier and full fence lower in

like new condition.
I think if I was in LE I would want the forward assist added.

paul v
02-15-2014, 12:02
Late 604 model. Probably around 1970 or later configuration
http://www.retroblackrifle.com/

joem
02-15-2014, 12:51
"I think if I was in LE I would want the forward assist added."

I have never used the forward assist. If a round will not chamber them there is something wrong most likely in the chamber. Using the assist only makes it worse and I saw a U-tube where a guy had what he thought was a misfire. Used the charging handle and hit the forward assist had several times. When he fired it the rifle exploded. The M16 I carried had no forward assist.

Johnny in Texas
02-15-2014, 04:46
I have used mine more than once for various reasons. For me the forward assist is only the first step of the repair process or you have to push the pins and seperate the upper from the lower to clear the jam if it will not eject.

Most of the time I have used it was to push the BCG home because a never fired a "Black Rifle Person" pulled back on the charging handle and milked it closed almost!

bombdog
02-15-2014, 09:29
Yup
bombdog, out!!!!!!!
I have used mine more than once for various reasons. For me the forward assist is only the first step of the repair process or you have to push the pins and seperate the upper from the lower to clear the jam if it will not eject.

Most of the time I have used it was to push the BCG home because a never fired a "Black Rifle Person" pulled back on the charging handle and milked it closed almost!

usmc69
02-16-2014, 12:45
Without a Forward Assist it is prior to 1970 or earlier. I enlisted in the Corps (March, 1969) and never saw one without a Forward Assist. We qualified with M14's in Boot Camp. Saw my first M16 in mid May '69 in Infantry Training at Camp Geiger then. All had a Forward Assist (IIRC). In fact we were taught to smack the Forward Assist with the heel of our hand every time we chambered a round from a fresh mag. Was that a hold over from someone's experience in Viet Nam in combat, can only assume so.

epa223
02-16-2014, 03:26
I would concur with paul v.

usmc69
02-17-2014, 03:48
This is copy from Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle )

XM16E1 and M16A1 (Colt Model 603)

An early M16 rifle: note "duckbill" flash suppressor, triangular grip, forward assist, and the lack of brass deflector
The U.S. Army XM16E1 was essentially the same weapon as the M16 with the addition of a forward assist and corresponding notches in the bolt carrier. The M16A1 was the finalized production model in 1967.

To address issues raised by the XM16E1's testing cycle, a closed, bird-cage flash suppressor replaced the XM16E1's three-pronged flash suppressor which caught on twigs and leaves. Various other changes were made after numerous problems in the field. Cleaning kits were developed and issued while barrels with chrome-plated chambers and later fully lined bores were introduced.

With these and other changes, the malfunction rate slowly declined and new soldiers were generally unfamiliar with early problems. A rib was built into the side of the receiver on the XM16E1 to help prevent accidentally pressing the magazine release button while closing the ejection port cover. This rib was later extended on production M16A1s to help in preventing the magazine release from inadvertently being pressed. The hole in the bolt that accepts the cam pin was crimped inward on one side, in such a way that the cam pin may not be inserted with the bolt installed backwards, which would cause failures to eject until corrected. The M16A1 is no longer in service with the United States, but is still standard issue in many world armies.

fjruple
02-17-2014, 04:31
Definitely a late Model 604 M16 probably for the US Air Force. The US Air Force saw the forward assist as an unnecessary expense, only the US Army and Marines went to the XM16E1 and M16A1 with the forward assist. M16 (Model 604) production ran concurrently with the M16A1 (Model 603) production.

--fjruple

Johnny in Texas
02-17-2014, 04:46
Now the Air Force use makes sense! Barely used or only dropped once condition!
When was the Colt AR-15 logo dropped?

fjruple
02-17-2014, 05:49
We use to shoot with local air guard team to round out our team in the combat matches. I remember an AIr Force Major shooting a M 16 with serial # 4,000,000. We thought it was a mistake. Later that rifle ended up the local national guard museum.

fjruple

Griff Murphey
02-19-2014, 08:51
SP-1 owner here, never had a need to have a forward assist. Shot with the Marines as attached Navy 74-76, used an XM-16E2, and they would tell you to hit that forward assist but I usually did not. Shoot it in the mud or dust, heat it up... 16's were failing after 300 rounds sustained fire at Wanat, yeah you would want that in combat. A clean well maintained rifle should purr along without a forward assist.

GA-Dave
02-20-2014, 10:27
When I was in Iraq in 2003 the USAF was still issueing M16s without F/O. They refer to it as a GAU something or another.

What type of flash suppressor does th erifle in the OP have? What's the serial number?

Andouille
02-21-2014, 04:48
Recent acquisition by Texas Sheriff Office near port O'connor

It looks like an early upper with an A1 bolt carrier and full fence lower in

like new condition.
I think if I was in LE I would want the forward assist added.

The forums on Retro Black Rifle never really caught on for some reason, but there is an especially active forum on ARFCOM dedicated to that era, and those boys would be very pleased (as in foaming at the mouth rabidly pleased) to tell you all about that rifle. Unlike the General Discussion area of ARFCOM, they're pretty well behaved and helpful. A fair proportion of them are Viet Nam veterans.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_3/123_.html

I seem to recall that the Air Force rifles had no forward assist, because they started looking into buying theirs before the Army. The 601/602/604 series of rifles without forward assist were direct decendents of the "original" AR-10 rifles made under license, and none of them had forward assists either. The 603 with forward assist came later.

The Army also had some "slick-side" rifles, as late as 1971, because 5 or 6 of us in my basic training company at Fort Jackson were issued them, including me.

Johnny in Texas
02-21-2014, 12:56
Thanks for the Air Force info. that makes sense. Personally I like having a forward assist. I own an AR-15 SP1 and have had to take it apart to clear a jam. Only once but it is still less than ideal I have used a bullet tip to push the BCG forward also on that rifle. To me it is like having a jack but no lug wrench.

Quibbley
04-28-2014, 09:40
I am former Air Force Security Police. I was active duty between 1984 and 1987. I got out a little early under the reduction or strength program. I worked in high security restricted areas and was trained for Air Base Ground Defense (i.e. Air Force version of combat school).

The M-16's we carried did not have a forward assist. I never needed it. I am not certain but I believe the lower receiver was marked as M-16...I could be wrong though. The bolt carrier has a place to put your thumb to push it forward in the event the bolt did not go into battery.

Also, while stationed in Germany I worked in the armory a bit. I remember one person in my flight (Air Force equivalent of a platoon) was issued a M-16 that the lower receiver was marked as Armalite AR-15 Patent Pending. I never new how old the rifle was but I figured it must have been one of the early one purchased by the Air Force.

ridgerunner
04-29-2014, 09:09
I was in Viet Nam in 1969. Never was a big fan of the forward assist. Kind of like getting a tractor stuck. If you stop before it gets stuck too tight, it's a lot easier to get out.
You can kick that charging handle on the latch side a lot harder than you would think, and not break it.
The only time I spent on an air base ( coming into country, leaving country ) it seemed that the perimeter got quite active after dark.

S.B.
06-12-2014, 09:51
Johhny in Texas, have you ever seen a well maintained(clean) AR15 that needed the forward assit?
Steve

leemozoid
06-15-2014, 06:14
Without a Forward Assist it is prior to 1970 or earlier. I enlisted in the Corps (March, 1969) and never saw one without a Forward Assist. We qualified with M14's in Boot Camp. Saw my first M16 in mid May '69 in Infantry Training at Camp Geiger then. All had a Forward Assist (IIRC). In fact we were taught to smack the Forward Assist with the heel of our hand every time we chambered a round from a fresh mag. Was that a hold over from someone's experience in Viet Nam in combat, can only assume so.
SPORT
Slap the bottom of the magazine
Pull the operating handle to the rear
Observe the chamber
Return the bolt home
Tap the forward assist

can14
08-02-2014, 05:32
I have an xm16e1 colt rifle. It is marked ar15 and has the forward assist etc.

Johnny in Texas
08-16-2014, 10:09
Steve after a weekend of hunting pigs and other critters I rarely have a clean and well maintained M16 so mine gets used at night mostly after a mag change also comes in handy when chambering a round silently at night so their are other uses for the little devilish thing. I remember one night I pulled the trigger and heard a click and realized no round in chamber so I milked the bolt closed very slowly with the forward assist and did not spook a group of hogs I was trying to get a few shots at. $hit happens that is why I like the dang thang. But if you don't want one hey man I am ok with it.

Col. Colt
08-21-2014, 04:53
The AR-15 Series was originally designed by Stoner with the forward assist INTERNAL - that little cutout inside the ejection port on the side of the Bolt Carrier is all you should ever need, shaped to fit your Thumb!

If you have to force it closed, something is too bad wrong, and you may then JAM it closed - which you Do NOT WANT TO DO!! CC