Reduced 30-06 load needed

[Busterman]

Due to serious shoulder injury (surgery scheduled for next week) and doctor's suggestion to not continue shooting high power, I need help finding and learning how to build low recoiling, reduced loads that are accurate. I shoot at Camp Perry every year and really don't want to miss out on the Garand and Springfield matches. Can anyone help with a mild load that will function in a Garand and still be reasonably accurate?
Of course, any help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[joem]

"Can anyone help with a mild load that will function in a Garand and still be reasonably accurate"?

That's a tall order. I tried some 110 gr carbine pills with 4895, 150 gr with Trail Boss powder and 150 gr chrono'd at 2000 FPS. None would operate the action but were easy on the shoulder.

[p246]

Not sure how mild you want to go here is one I use that works in my Garand but I actually built it to shoot in 03A3 so I could shoot 75 to 100 rds in a day and not have my shoulder screaming at me without using a slip on recoil pad or jacket..

Federal 210 large rifle primer
44 grains varget
168 grain match king or Hornady AMAX
OAL 3.345
Chronograph average is 2490 out of O3A3, The Garand pushed the slightly under that.

I know one usually prefers a little lighter bullet in aa Garand but this is the load I've been using. If you have H4895 its very close to Varget also.

[p246]

Forgot to address accuracy. This load is very accurate in both my 03A3 and I posted a pic awhile back of a five shot groups all touching with the better shooter of the two. Sight however will not be doped and will shoot low if your shooting past 300. The garand likes it also but I've only shot it at 100 yards as the Garand recently showed up at the door needing a home. If I had some 150 graing bullets I play with a 40 grain load and see if it would run the op rod for yeah but 168 and 180 are all I have as I just went and looked.

[p246]

Busterman if you have varget or 4895 and 168 grain bullets 'I'd be glad to load up some at 40 grains and shoot over chrono this weekend and let you know if it ran in the garand.

I'm wondering if the heavier bullet will help cycle action with lower powder charge I noticed Joem used 110g pills and it would not. I would think that load would also run around 2000fps. Might even be worth trying 180 grain pills over 40 grains varget and see what the oprod does

P246

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Has anybody tried the Sierra 135gr and the new 125gr Matchkings? I thought of trying those in my 1903 for the Springfield matches. Thought to reduce recoil for our smaller junior shooters that like these matches. Also thought it would make the rapid fire strings easier. Something to play with over the winter.

[Parashooter]

In the M1, you have to keep the powder mass (and consequent gas volume) near normal to ensure reliable functioning. To get significantly reduced recoil while maintaining port pressure, switch to lighter bullets while keeping the same charge of your usual powder. For good accuracy and function in this kind of load, the 110-grain Sierra HP (#2110) is hard to beat. Loaded over 46 grains of 4895, for example, this gives a bit under 9 ft. lb. of recoil energy in a 9 lb. rifle - compared to over 14 ft. lb. from the same charge with a 168-grain bullet, or about 12 ft. lb. with a 150.

For the bolt gun, you can get acceptable 200-yard performance and still lower recoil with lighter charges of faster powder. 25 grains of SR4759 or AA5744, for example, produce about 4 ft. lb. of recoil with the 110 Sierra, while the old standby of 12 gr. Red Dot gives just 2.4 ft. lb. - which is slightly less recoil than a 9 lb. mousegun delivers with normal loads.

Of course you have to go through the usual process of load development to get optimum accuracy and functioning, but it's well worth the effort - even for uninjured folks who'd like to improve their 200-yard scores

[Busterman]

This is great information and thanks to all that contributed. I have Varget, IMR4895, H4895, IMR4064 and IMR3031. I recently bought 100 Nosler 168 gr. CC's. My gunsmith is going to install mercury filled recoil reducers in my match Garand, 03A3 and CG63 (6.5x55) to help.
I'll try all suggestions and P246, if you want to load and let me know the results I'd appreciate it very much.
I get my shoulder repaired on the 19th and want to be ready for next season with reduced and proven loads.
Best regards to all.

[p246]

I can.... If ican find para shooters components I'll load up a few of those to but coponets not always esy to find, which will be the 110 grain sierra bullets.

I know joem reports no luck trying 110s with cycling. Joem what was powder charge were you using.

[Maury Krupp]

For a Speer 125TNT my standard loads are:

-.30-'06 = 46.0gr of H/IMR4895 or 47.0gr of IMR4064

-.308 = 41.5 of 4895 or 42.5 of 4064.

-Practice blammo gets 44.5gr of BL-C(2)

I picked these charges because that's where my powder measure bars are set for my 168/175 loads and I'm too lazy to change.

All are below most published start loads but still cycle the action and hold the SR 10-ring at 200yd.

I've also loaded the 110gr .30Carb bullet in .308. It cycles and held the SR-1 10-ring at 100yd.

If I was looking for even less recoil I'd probably start there and work down (both bullet and powder) until the rifle won't cycle or won't hold the 10-ring.

Maury

[joem]

"I know joem reports no luck trying 110s with cycling. Joem what was powder charge were you using."

If I remember correctly it was about 25 grs with a mag primer to insure ignition. No recoil to speak of.

[p246]

Thanks Joem.
Busterman I was able to talk to a fellow shooter that's already been through rotator cuff surgery and worked up soft loads for his Garands and he has a few. He said each one was a little different so I got data from his best (like new HRA) and worst (rack grade beat up Springfield) garand. He said the rest fell in between these loads.

Only powder he uses is IMR4895
Only primers were Federal 210
Brass mix of Greek HXP and Lake City

150 grain bullets Hornandy/Speed/sierra
HRA =34 grains powder to cycle best group 2inches at 100
Springer = 37 grains to cycle best group 3.5 inches at 100
Recoil similar to AR-15
Bullet brand did not make much difference

110 grain Hornady AMAX
HRA 41 grains powder Best group 2.5 inches
Springer 45 grains best group 4 inches
Recoil AR-15 like but report louder than 150 grain load

100 grain Sierra
HRA 42.5 grains powder 4 inch groups
Springer went to 47 grains total bust on accuracy and keyholed some rounds
Said a plinking round only

He got his starting points of CMP thread so might be more info there.

Goodluck

[p246]

Oh I was supposed to tell you he is old and not the best shot anymore so you should expect better groups:-) Also he has a Springer with an adjustable gas cylinder and it didn't make any difference in light loads. Anyway hopefully you have IMR4895 or a powder close in burn rate. If so these loads should give you a place to start.

I was a little surprised how much powder it took to cycle the 110 grainers vs the 150 grainers

[Maury Krupp]

The condition of each Gas Cylinder, Gas Piston, Op Rod Spring, etc will affect whether the rifle cycles or not. This becomes even more of a factor when working with reduced loads.

Generally a like new, in spec system will require less gas/powder than an old worn one. Remember the underpowered Lake City M2 Ball from several years ago? Some rifles would have problems while others ate it up.

So just because one reduced load works or doesn't work in Tom's and Dick's rifles doesn't mean it will work or not work in Harry's.

Maury

[JohnF]

For reduced loads with Hodgdon H4895 check out their reduced load web page.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

My 'soft load' for the M1 Garand rifle is 40.5 grains of H4895 with a Speer 125 grain TNT bullet. This load does cycle the rifle. For my 03A3 I use 24.0 grains of IMR SR4759 with a Nosler 155 grain HPBT bullet. Both are accurate and easy to shoot as I have a bum shoulder also.

[Busterman]

Again, my sincere thanks to all for sharing the information. I'll start reloading as soon as I get back in good form with my shoulder. I'll be ready for next season for sure..
A quick note on the rifles: My match legal Garand was built by Roland Beaver. It has a Douglas premium barrel, new gas cylinder and rebuilt to spec oprod. The other is an old DCM '03A3 in spectacular condition. They are both very accurate and I am certain will be with reduced loads. Can't wait to try them. Regards, Don

[Busterman]

In addition, with mercury filled recoil reducers correctly installed I am not the least bit concerned about recoil with any of the reduced loads mentioned in this thread. I'm looking forward to a great season now when I actually thought my highpower days were over.
Best to all,
Don

[Tuna]

I have a friend who just finished his rehab after cuff surgery. Took six months counting recovery time for him, then doing the assigned exercises and he is now back shooting trap and doing very well with it. As he said do what they tell you and DON'T be in a hurry to get back to any kind of shooting till you have fully recovered and the doctor says OK. Another shooter we know who had the same operation started shooting after three months and then had to go back in and have it repaired again. So don't take the chance and wait till they say you can even if you feel great.

[Busterman]

Great advice, thanks!

[Griff Murphey]

I use 43 gr. 4895 and a 168 BTHP, not a light lad but lighter than what others seem to use... Never had an FTF and I think the load could be cut a bit and still have reliability and accuracy.

[emmagee1917]

Might also look at a Smith Enterprises muzzle break , reduces 30-06 to light .243 recoil.
Chris

[Dollar Bill]

From ceresco on the CMP forum: "If you are shooting at 200yds and under, try 48grs of any of the powders mentioned and the 110gr Hornady spire point at 3.09"OAL. It will shoot with any match bullet at those ranges, function 100%, recoil noticably less and cost less. No need for 168gr bullets at short range. Good Shooting...... "

Many folks swear by this load for reduced recoil in Garands. Powders mentioned are 4895, 4064 and varget.

[Matt Anthony]

I still have a torn rotator cuff and have refused surgery due to the increase in hospital infections and doctor mistakes, plus the outragous cost of the entire ordeal. Due to litigation issues, there are as many as 5 different tests you must take before surgery which simply drives up the cost. Consultation fee's, $350.00 an hour and the many hours you spend sitting in waiting rooms just to talk to the doctor. Anyway, I have lived over 3 years with it and on a scale of one to ten, with one being the least of my pain, I am presently on 3 by watching what I do with the shoulder. I was at 10 for over a year!
Reduced loads is your question, and I have used reduced loads for years with my daughter and wife so they could work up to full house loads in 243 and 308. The garand as you know must have pressure to cycle and it must be with in a certain parameter. As I don't own a garand and only have bolt guns, I really don't think there are any loads that reduce recoil down to what you need to keep your shoulder from exploding when shooting semi-auto's!
However, there are many sources of reduced loads online and older reloading manuals. One such is Phil Sharpe's book on reloading. I found many loads for the 30-06 in his manual that honestly were pleasant to shoot using Unique. My older Lyman handbook has one load which is my pet load in 308, 12.5 gr's of Green Dot using a 185 gr. Hoch top pour cast bullet. With the gas check and lube it weighs in at 193 gr's. I use #2 alloy or 15 BHN and this hardness is perfect for hunting and target. For the 30-06 you can bump it up to 14.0 gr's. FPS in the 308 is 1461 and the 30-06 is 1499. Anyway, good luck with your shoulder, mine has taken years to heal by itself and that was my decision to not have the surgery!
Matt

[Busterman]

Matt, Surgery is my only option at this point. Unfortunately, I've already had plenty of time for it to heal which it has not mostly due to not being entirely careful. I am working with the information generously offered in this thread plus friends that are working on lead bullet loads for me. I have a fine gunsmith installing mercury filled recoil reducers in 3 of my rifles. I'm confident that with the combination of both I'll be o.k. I am definitely giving the repair plenty of time to heal properly. It's not just the rotator cuff in my case, the tendon ripped loose and needs to be re-attached to help cushion the joint from bone on bone contact. Thanks for the load information and your comments.