Spotting Scope Advice

[Mike Josephic]

I recently bought a new rifle in .308 caliber (SCAR 17s). I was doing some shooting
at club nearby that has a 300 meter rifle range. My old spotting scope, which I used
mainly for handgun target work, was not up to the task. I could not clearly see the
bullet holes on the target at 300 meters. This is a quality scope (Bausch & Lomb)
that I paid $500 for about 25 years ago. It's just wrong for this job.

After doing some looking on the net, it seems that everything that has the power
and optics (65 power with 80mm objective lens) is made in China. Even so, they
are priced in the $800 - $1,000 range.

I really don't want to go that route, but I can't see paying around $3K for the
European optics.

Any ideas on a good quality American scope that won't break the bank?

Mike

[JohnMOhio]

Best advise I would try is to check some of the gun shows. See what turns up. It might take awhile but the savings could be substantial.

[Oyaji]

Check out Jim Owens' website for quality spotting scopes at a fair price. I bought one of the Kowa TSN 821 years ago with a 27X LER eyepiece. One of the best shooting equipment investments I ever made.

http://jarheadtop.com/

[Maury Krupp]

Even with the best, highest dollar scope there is, seeing .30cal bullet holes at 300yd is iffy; .223 even iffy-er.

Too much depends on the light, mirage, haze, background, and other unknowns.

For shooting across-the-course where the requirement is seeing mirage and reading conditions I like my Kowa 661; the guys with the 82s like theirs too.

The Konus also get good reviews and are a bit less expensive. Maybe not as rugged as a Kowa if that matters.

Good optics are going to cost you. It really is a "You get what you pay for" situation.

Maury

[mhb]

and my experience is that you cannot gain any benefit from magnification much above 20X. With a quality scope of that power, you can see .30 bullet holes (or .22 ones) quite well at 200 yards, and most of the time at 300. Beyond that range, the effects of mirage and wind make it virtually impossible to distinguish individual bullet holes - higher magnification just makes the problem worse.
The best scopes I ever used were the old Leupold Team scopes, with 4" objective. Eyepieces were interchangeable for different magnifications, but we always stuck with 20-24X. With those scopes you could always see the holes at 300 yards, but even they didn't permit seeing individual holes beyond that.
The real advantage of the team scopes was that, when coaching was permitted on the line, the coach could actually see the bullet in flight (from the shockwave) all the way out to 1000 yards, and could call the shot for the shooter by watching where the shockwave broke-over into the target.
I don't think more power will improve your situation, but, before you spend the money for something 'better', why don't you ask to try-out a friend's scope of higher power and good quality, to see whether it helps or not.

mhb - Mike

[Johnny in Texas]

The larger the objective the better you will be able to see holes in my experience. All things being equal. think 25-27 power is perfect for 300+ ranges 20X for -300 yards.
I have a few old B&L spotting scopes from the 30's-40' era that are fantastic. 90mm objective 20 inch long with a 10-12 mm eyepiece aperture.

[Mike Josephic]

Gentlemen, thanks for all of the great info and tips. Jim Owen's website was very interesting and full of great info.

Mike

[joem]

There was a man at the club that used a 6" telescope. You could see the grain in the paper target.

[Art]

Resolving power is everything at long range. It doesn't matter how much power the 'scope has if the resolving power isn't up to snuff. There are some extremely high quality 'scopes not made in China that might do the job but they cost a heck of a lot more than $800.00!! I have a cousin whose husband has one of the old Leupold team 'scopes and nhb's assessment is right on. At 300 yards I had no difficulty seeing the holes but I doubt I could have much beyond that. I have a decent (not great but ok) spotting scope but 225 yards is its absolute limit and oftentimes I have to squint a bit at 200.

So I think nhb and Maury Krupp are correct. Seeing an object less than a half inch across at ranges around a quarter mile is going to require optics so expensive that it just may not be worth it.

[jgaynor]

If you are buying a scope thats packaged with a tripod don't overlook the tripod and its interface with the scope. Some tripods have a certain amount of "slop" that causes the image to shift vertically just when you think yo have every thing tight and centered. Try the combination out before hand if you possibly can.

[holdover]

++ for the Kowa 821, but it is not cheap. I bought it with the 27 power LER because I wear glasses, works great at 300 with 30 cal, and well past 500 with 45/70. I also bought the 20X60 eyepiece for it on sale at optics planet, it also works great, but more power is no always the answer. Had the Konus 80MM and it is a good scope for the money, but not up to the KOWA, BUT it is 1/4th the cost.