My pet load I think

[p246]

Been working up a pet brush hunting load for the trapdoor. Furthest shot would probably be 50 yards. I was given 2 lbs Pyrodex and wanted to use it even though I like BP better.

star line brass with flash hole drill with number 41 drill bit
CCI magnum rifle primer
Lee 500 grain bullet 1/20 tin to lead tumble lube with ALOX .459 (bore .457)
1/16 inch card behind bullet
41 grains PYRODEX RS very slightly compressed

Shot over chronograph yesterday. Average velocity 1125 in 20 shots. Low 1098/high 1150. Points of impact at 50 yards 3 to 4 inches high. Nice group with no flyers. Ran a couple patches through bore every 4 shots.

I think I'll stick here, I could load it faster but for whitetail it should more than do if I do my parts

Did the original GI 45-70-500 run around 1300 fps.Since Pyrodex is nèw to me if you see anything I should try different let me know

[mannparks]

P246, the only possible problem i can see with your recipe is the Alox lube.
In hunting situations It will work, but it does not have the quality or amount of lube needed for the big bullet in repeated shots for target work.

[p246]

Thanks for the reply. I was concerned about that. I did fill the grease slots full of ALOX. I have only cast for 45ACP and 12 gauge slugs. The ALOX works fine in 45ACP. I've been looking at some other options and even thought a bout sizing them down and paperpatching no more than I shoot it.

I also looked at a dip lube beeswax (40%) Lanolin (5%) Crisco rest. I've found some others but I may try this. I 've got to do more research though. Three components easy to find but I need to see if its pyrodex friendly.

[mannparks]

P246, I would not size down, if anything the trapdoor likes a larger bullet (.459--.460) don't know without sluging the barrel.
Pan lubeing is good
Here is a web sight for lube.
www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm

[p246]

P246, I would not size down, if anything the trapdoor likes a larger bullet (.459--.460) don't know without sluging the barrel.
Pan lubeing is good
Here is a web sight for lube.
www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm
Thanks for reply. Black powder center fire is a new venture for me recently. I slugged barrel and its .457, hence. 459 pills. I wanted to find a lube a turn of century person might readily make. Got eager and used ALOX for first batch because thats what i had. Musketshooter told me about yellow beeswax and olive oil so I want to try that. I'd also like to try paperpatching but my understanding is I'd have to size down to. 457 or so and paperpatch back up to. 459. I'veread to dip paper in sprite before applying. I'm trying to go old school with trapdoor. I know pyrodex is not old school but this is only gun I can use it in so I'll use it up then go back to BP. I was surprised 41 grains of Pyrodex got me to 1125 fps. I read an old post on here where one used 58 grains to go slightly over 1300. Any experienced input welcome.

[mannparks]

Std load pyrodex rs (60 GRS. By weight) lyman 500 gr #457125 mold bullet..180 compresion
Remember no air space in the cartridge. veg wad under bullet base.
This load goes in s Sharps m1874.
will also be a starting place for the TD.
By the way this load holds 1 3/8 @ 100 yds
Charles

[p246]

Std load pyrodex rs (60 GRS. By weight) lyman 500 gr #457125 mold bullet..180 compresion
Remember no air space in the cartridge. veg wad under bullet base.
This load goes in s Sharps m1874.
will also be a starting place for the TD.
By the way this load holds 1 3/8 @ 100 yds
Charles
Thanks. I noticed you use veg wae. I used a paper(cardboardtype) card. Does the type of card matter or is just making sure there is no airspace the most important factor. I want to keep my any loads under or right at 1300 fps in this old trapdoor just to be safe.

[mannparks]

The wad is just another ingredient that has to be experimented with.
Safety wise leaving no air space in the cartridge Case is a must.
The load I spoke of has a muzzle speed of +/- 1100fps.
Charles

[sdkrag]

The original loads for the trapdoor were never to my knowledge paper patched. The how based bullets were intended to expand and grip the rifling. Very similar to the minie' bullet used during the civil war. The army didn't want to mess with patching. That was a target practice or early buffalo hunter deal.

[sdkrag]

I meant to say the hollow based bullets. And having never patched a bullet I m no expert but for target use they may have added to the accuracy of the loads. It's just that patching was never involed in government military loads.

[p246]

Thanks sdkrag I knew paperpatching was target thing and not military thing but I like to experiment. I'm not sure I'll stick with it as its time consuming. But I'd like to compare PP to greasers. I'm just surprised I'm getting 1125 fps over chrono with just 41 grains pyrodex. That is slightly compressed with thin card and Alox. I've seen post where pyrodex is used in trapdoors up to 60 grains. I've loaded some of the same rds with 50 grains pyrodex and am headed to range. These are also greased with SP homemade lube over light coat of ALOX. Its 100degrees so I might have to wipe after each shot.

[Dick Hosmer]

Some of the early experimentation in the long-range program involved PP bullets, but such were never intended for general use, or even rough handling, since they (at that point) were still using the 2.1" case. Once the 2.4" case was adopted (for the LR rifles only!) PP went away.

[p246]

Back from range. My pet load did the best group wise out of three I tried.
All loads used Stareline brass with flashhole drilled with #41 drill bit
All loads used large CCI magnum primers
All loads used same cardboard shot card under bullet
All loads used compressed pyrodex
5 shot groups then barrel was cleaned
Temperature 99 degrees humidity 41%
All groups shot from benchrest at 100 yards

41 grains pyrodex. 500 grain Lee bullets. ALOX lube 1120 fps average over 10 shots...4 inch group groups shot approximately 4 inches high
50 grains pyrodex SP homemade lube all else same. 1225 fps average over 10 shots 6 inch group shot approximately 7 inches high
55 grains pyrodex 405 grain Missouri bullet company rnfp bullet. 1440 fps average over 10 shots with most consistent velocity but struck 13 inches high.

I'll probably reshoot this when its cooler as sp lube does funny things reportedly when temp climbs over 90. I might also try the 405 grain bullets with less powder,

My trapdoor is a rifle not a carbine.

Only person with ols milsurps there and a lot of people came over to watch.

[jon_norstog]

P246,

Thank you for this post. I have been using BP a long time and always wondered whether Pyrodex had any use at all. I might try a can of it - BP is getting harder to get. I will be back home in a few days and plan to take my new trapdoor to the range ASAP. Will post!

jn

[p246]

I guess I should ask some of you that have trapdoor rifles. Mine is in good shape barrel wise. I think I can work something better than 4 MOA. Is the average trapdoor a 2 MOA rifle with the right combination and load or am I asking too much. I'm talking about pyrodex or black powder as the propellant.

No problem jn not a lot of pyrodex info out there for trapdoors, but an old timer I think knows what he's talking about keeps telling me in his sharps BP was always more accurate. I will eventually find out if that's true for my rifle.

[Dick Hosmer]

I think 2 MOA as an "average" (considering the actual meaning of the word) is probably a stretch, given how good some would have to be to offset the truly horrible, but I'd think 3 MOA might be reasonable as a potential which most people could achieve with a good rifle and careful loading. Of course, even sub-minute groups are possible when ALL is right, and the gods are smiling. It can be dangerous to suggest what is "right" in this forum. Some people are very particular, others claim that acceptable accuracy can be obtained with factory jacketed stuff in any rifle with a good bore.

[mannparks]

P246,test,test, and oh yea test again.
In my experience pyrodex RS is good up to around 100yds more than than that and the groups open up , and the switch to BP is called for. I also have found that pyrodex tends to attrack rust so I use the vinager/water

treatment liberally.

[p246]

Thanks mann Parks I like to play with loads and the chrono so that's no problem. My old timer I talk to told me to clean rifle good after shooting then repatch it for next two days so that's what I gave been doing. Soap vinegar and hot water and then the pyrodex cleaning patches made by hogdon. Seems to work well.