DCM/NRA Krag Carbine?

[ReedYates]

Several years ago I inherited a pair of Krags from an uncle. A rifle and a carbine. Both M1898. The rifle is a "family heirloom" that a great-great uncle brought home after the S/A War. His story was that he absconded with it when he mustered out. Seems unlikely that the Army would be so careless but that was his tale. When my uncle inherited it he decided he wanted a carbine to go with it and eventually came across this one in the '60s. The fellow he bought it from said he thought it was probably an NRA gun and that it was NOT a real M1898 carbine. At a gun show last weekend I saw a couple of carbines and a rifle which aroused my curiosity in this one again. Looking around on the internet brought me to this site and I'm hopeful that some of you will offer your opinions as to whether or not this is indeed an NRA gun. It has a lot of carbine attributes that I hope are visible in the pictures. I'm looking forward to learning more about my carbine. Thanks in advance.

[p246]

Welcome to the forum. There are some very knowlegable Krag owners that will chime in. You have a nice looking Krag regardless.

[Dick Hosmer]

Welcome indeed!

Sorry, most likely NOT a real (or even NRA) carbine. Dubious front sight installation. though it is a Krag base. Rifle rear sight (base ramps are too high). Most damning is the OALW stamp (here, finally, is an example, guys) put on by a notorious faker from the Midwest - now deceased - who screwed over large numbers of Krags (frequently called "Red Ryders" from the stain he normally used) and toy trains. OALW stands for Ostberg Armory and Locomotive Works. At least he marked his stuff, which, actually, is often quite well-done, and pretty, even if not "real".

[dave]

Ah, the infamous Red Rider! I had one once, long since gone. You really have to look hard to see the seam where the front carbine stock extension was added under the band. The plate in rear of stock was in the inlet for the rifle stock swivel. Nice looking and good shooters tho.
I do not think the guy who made these up made a bundle of money, I only paid 350 for mine and a buddy had paid 300 for his. This was back when real ones sold for about the same. Buddy and I were always trying to match the OWAL to a fraternal org. or some buiness that used rifles for protection (back in the older days).

[ReedYates]

Oh boy, oh boy! A genuine Ostberg! I've always wanted one of those. Lemonade on the house!

So, Ostberg is the fellow's name? Or did he make that up too. I've watched enough "Lovejoy" mysteries and PawnStars to know that people will fake anything of value. Oh well, as you say it is a nice gun. I'm happy with that. Anything else to be told? I appreciate the input very much.

[Rick the Librarian]

What is the serial number?

[5MadFarmers]

Oh boy, oh boy! A genuine Ostberg! I've always wanted one of those. Lemonade on the house!

So, Ostberg is the fellow's name? Or did he make that up too. I've watched enough "Lovejoy" mysteries and PawnStars to know that people will fake anything of value. Oh well, as you say it is a nice gun. I'm happy with that. Anything else to be told? I appreciate the input very much.

I really wish you wouldn't do that. Ostberg marked the guns he assembled as that's the standard adopted. In fact he visible marked them whereas the standard desires a mark under the butt plate so he exceeded the standard greatly. Would you rather have that or would you have the next person with his talent, and he was talented, not mark them at all? Then we have the situation where somebody pays a very large amount of money for "an original" and posts pictures. Then I, or somebody like me, upon reviewing the photos will have the unpleasant task of telling them the truth. Being well marked the OALW guns are known to collectors. They don't get those premium prices. So I wish you wouldn't do that.

Dick? Along similar lines I've noticed a disturbance in the force. It began some time ago but accelerated last night. Right now are some "lots" of Krag parts being sold on GB. I believe, based on the seller ID, that's it's C.W. of Julia. Why the parts? What does that imply? Looks like the leavings of a reassembly line. That's not good. I hope that's not what that is a sign of.

If so a surprise is in store. PH has agreed to process the records I was doing and I finally switched over to the Krag book. I wrote 10 pages yesterday but scrapped it and started over today. Wrote 28. Part 1 is done and, if a reassembly line was in existance, I think I just pulled the rug out from under it. The book won't be done until next summer, takes a while to do the last part, but the "difficult" part is what I completed today.

I'm going to fabricate some guns for the book. I won't be marking them. I'd rather not have somebody come along in a few years and claim it was a "Farmer special, a fake through and through. Did he fake his name too?"

The serials will be in the book. Yes, they'll be assembled using my knowledge. It's for a good cause.

[jon_norstog]

Reed,

How about some pictures of the rifle. That one could be the real deal.

jn

[p246]

Would love to see the rifle to

[5MadFarmers]

Dick? Along similar lines I've noticed a disturbance in the force. It began some time ago but accelerated last night. Right now are some "lots" of Krag parts being sold on GB. I believe, based on the seller ID, that's it's C.W. of Julia. Why the parts? What does that imply? Looks like the leavings of a reassembly line. That's not good. I hope that's not what that is a sign of.


I was asked, privately, if I think "assembled" guns are being sold by Julia. Given that one person read it that way I'd rather publicly respond. Emphatically NO. A person, and I included the Julia connection simply so Dick would know who I was mentioning, who has consulted on guns for Julia and doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, work for them directly is currently selling large lots of Krag parts on GunBroker. My suspicion is that a reassembly line was in operation as I can't think of any other reason for them. What is a "reassembly line?" Buy 100 Krags. Knock them down. Build complete guns from the parts. Sell the rest to include stripped receivers and everything else. If the total outlay for the 100 guns was, say (and I'm not going to try to be accurate) $1000, the completed guns and parts would probably bring $2000.

That's not "fraud" per se as it's simply making useful guns from bits and pieces guns. Looked at from another angle, there are X number of guns needing parts to "restore" them to usability. By buying quantities of the guns, one gets examples which can be restored to useful form leaving the extra bits which themselves can be sold when the operation is complete.

I do not know that any fraud is intended nor do I have reason to. I simply prepare for more "complete" guns to appear which have been recently assembled. I don't not think Julia is involved at all - I think it's a private effort.

Gunsmiths do it all the time. As do auto body shops.

[ReedYates]

Here are some pics of the rifle.

[ReedYates]

Here are some pics of the rifle. The s/n of the rifle is 106579. The "carbine" s/n is 212490.

[Rick the Librarian]

From the pictures (slightly blurry) looks like a correct late 1896 rifle to me. You mentioned both were "1898" - look carefully on the serial number of the rifle (use a magnifying glass) - is it marked "1898" or "1896"? The serial number you list is about 3,000 numbers below the commonly accepted "cutoff" between the 1896 and 1898. The stock and from this distance) rear sight appear to be for an 1896.

[Dick Hosmer]

Do check the serial number of course (and some heavy/sloppy strikes CAN be hard to tell if a "6" or an "8") - but - AFAIK there is no real need because of the highly visible bolt-handle shroud.

No one has EVER, to my knowledge, reported a "Model 1898" with the shroud, or a "Model 1896" without same. It is the THE defining feature which separates the two models. Changeover point is now thought to be right around 108900.

[ReedYates]

Excellent info guys. The strike on the 6 is heavy/sloppy, but under higher magnification yes it is an 1896. Good to know about the shrouded bolt too.